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O/S Deployment Thread, Not renaming after imaging in Technical; I have a FOG system running and have syspreped and imaged a win7 machine. I have also installed Netdom via ...
  1. #1

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    Not renaming after imaging

    I have a FOG system running and have syspreped and imaged a win7 machine. I have also installed Netdom via RSAT. But it is not renaming or joining the domain.

    How do I force the Fog service to do this?

    Cheers

    Dave

  2. #2

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Examine the FOG log on the root of the C: of the machine after it is imaged. This will tell you why.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for the reply Geoff,

    Here is my log.

    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::UserCleanup Starting user cleanup process...
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::UserCleanup Attempting to connect to fog server...
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::UserCleanup Module is disabled globally on the FOG Server.
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:55 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG:irCleaner Starting directory cleaning process...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG:irCleaner Module is active...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG:irCleaner Determining which directories should be cleaned...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG:irCleaner No directories are configured to be cleaned.
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG:irCleaner Starting directory cleaning loop...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG:irCleaner Module has finished work and will now exit.
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch Failed!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::UserTracker Event: LOGIN for ****\*****
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::UserTracker Record processed by server!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::PrinterManager Management level = 0
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::PrinterManager This host is set to NO MANAGEMENT, we will exit now.
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::PrinterManager Major printing operations complete, moving to tracking mode.
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GUIWatcher Dispatch OK!
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::PrinterManager New user detected: ****\*****
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::PrinterManager Waiting for tray to load...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GreenFog Starting green fog...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GreenFog Attempting to connect to fog server...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GreenFog Module is active...
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GreenFog No actions were found.
    21/10/2009 10:56 FOG::GreenFog No tasks found after validation!
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Reading config settings...
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Reading of config settings passed.
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Starting Core processing...
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Operating System ID: 6
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Operating System Minor: 1
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Primary MAC Address: 00:21:9B:**:**:**
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug MAC ID 000:21:9B:**:**:**
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug A user is currently logged in
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Username: ****\*****
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Hostname: TESTMACH
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Attempting to open connect to: http://172.16.*.*/fog/service/debug.php
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Server responded with: Hello FOG Client
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::MODDebug Module has finished work and will now exit.
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Attempting to connect to fog server...
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Module is active...
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : ClientUpdater.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for ClientUpdater.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : DirCleaner.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for DirCleaner.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : DisplayManager.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for DisplayManager.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : GreenFog.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for GreenFog.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : GUIWatcher.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for GUIWatcher.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : HostRegister.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for HostRegister.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : MODDebug.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for MODDebug.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : PrinterManager.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for PrinterManager.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : SnapinClient.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for SnapinClient.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : TaskReboot.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for TaskReboot.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : UserCleanup.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for UserCleanup.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : UserTracker.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for UserTracker.dll
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Checking Status : config.ini
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater No update found on server for config.ini
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Zero byte response returned
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater 0 new modules found!
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Client update will be applied during next service startup.
    21/10/2009 10:57 FOG::ClientUpdater Client update process complete, exiting...
    21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::SnapinClient Attempting to connect to fog server...
    21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::SnapinClient Module is active...
    21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::SnapinClient No Tasks found for: 00:21:9B:**:**:**

    Not sure what to look for.

  4. #4

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Is there any mention of 'TaskReboot' in the log? If there is, please post that section. If not, ensure that you've enabled the 'Task Reboot' service option for the hosts you want to rename.

  5. #5

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Also there is no mention of the Hostname changer service. Is this enabled on the properties of the machine you are imaging?

  6. #6

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    Nope, no mention of taskreboot in the log. The taskreboot service is enabled on the host.

  7. #7

    Geoff's Avatar
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    If taskreboot is working you get something looking like this:

    Code:
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:02 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:07 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:12 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:17 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:22 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:27 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:32 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:37 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot Module is active...
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot No job exists for 00:24:21:AC:0A:6C
     21/10/2009 11:42 FOG::TaskReboot No task found for client.

  8. #8

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    Reinstalled fog client and this is the fog.log now.

    Code:
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::DisplayManager Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::GreenFog Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::GUIWatcher Stopping...
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::HostnameChanger Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::HostRegister Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::MODDebug Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::PrinterManager Shuting down
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::SnapinClient Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::TaskReboot Stopping...
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::UserCleanup Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:07 FOG::UserTracker Shutdown complete
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG Service Engine Version: 3
     21/10/2009 12:09 Starting all sub processes
     21/10/2009 12:09 14 modules loaded
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.AutoLogOut
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.SnapinClient
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::AutoLogOut Starting process...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::ClientUpdater Starting client update process...
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.DirCleaner
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::ClientUpdater Sleeping for 469 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.DisplayManager
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::DirCleaner Sleeping for 57 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::DisplayManager Starting display manager process...
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.GreenFog
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.GUIWatcher
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::GreenFog Sleeping for 52 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.HostNameChanger
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::GUIWatcher Starting GUI Watcher...
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.HostRegister
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostRegister Starting host registration process...
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.MODDebug
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::MODDebug Start Called
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::MODDebug Sleeping for 100 Seconds
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Starting hostname change process...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Yielding to other subservices for 2 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.SnapinClient
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::PrinterManager Starting interprocess communication process...
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.TaskReboot
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::SnapinClient Starting snapin client process...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::PrinterManager  interprocess comm startup: OK
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.UserCleanup
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::TaskReboot Taskreboot in lazy mode.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::TaskReboot Starting Task Reboot...
     21/10/2009 12:09  * Starting FOG.UserTracker
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::UserCleanup Sleeping for 19 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::UserTracker Starting user tracking process...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::PrinterManager Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::SnapinClient Sleeping for 389 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::DisplayManager Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostRegister Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::UserTracker Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::PrinterManager Module is active...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::PrinterManager Starting printer manager...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::PrinterManager Yielding to other services for 47 seconds.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostRegister Module is active...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostRegister Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::DisplayManager Module is disabled globally on the FOG Server.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::UserTracker Module is active...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::AutoLogOut Module is active...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostRegister MAC already registered.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::AutoLogOut Timeout value is Zero, disabling module.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Module is active...
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger AD mode requested, confirming settings.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Could not find any recognizable digits.
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger    at System.ParseNumbers.StringToInt(String s, Int32 radix, Int32 flags, Int32* currPos)
       at System.Convert.ToByte(String value, Int32 fromBase)
       at FOG.FOGCrypt.hexToByte(String hex)
       at FOG.HostNameChanger.changeHostName()
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::GUIWatcher Message found, attempting to notify GUI!
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::GUIWatcher The system cannot find message text for message number 0x%1 in the message file for %2
     21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::GUIWatcher    at System.Windows.Forms.Form.UpdateLayered()
       at System.Windows.Forms.Form.set_Opacity(Double value)
       at FOG.AbstractFOGService.attemptPushToGUI()
       at FOG.GUIWatcher.startWatching()
     21/10/2009 12:10 FOG::UserCleanup Starting user cleanup process...
     21/10/2009 12:10 FOG::UserCleanup Attempting to connect to fog server...
     21/10/2009 12:10 FOG::UserCleanup Module is disabled globally on the FOG Server.

  9. #9

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Attempting to connect to fog server...
    21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Module is active...
    21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger AD mode requested, confirming settings.
    21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger Could not find any recognizable digits.
    21/10/2009 12:09 FOG::HostnameChanger at System.ParseNumbers.StringToInt(String s, Int32 radix, Int32 flags, Int32* currPos)
    at System.Convert.ToByte(String value, Int32 fromBase)
    at FOG.FOGCrypt.hexToByte(String hex)
    at FOG.HostNameChanger.changeHostName()
    Well there is your problem, this rings a few bells actually. I'll have a dig around and see what I can find.

    edit: Ah I think this is due to your AD credentials, did you use fogcrypt.exe to encrypt the password?
    Last edited by sparkeh; 21st October 2009 at 12:19 PM.

  10. #10

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    Fogcrypt? Nope. I'll give that a try.

  11. #11

    Geoff's Avatar
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    See this previous thread about using fogcrypt

    Fog installations woes :(

  12. #12

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    THanks Geoff,

    Did the fogcrypt and added it to the Fog system settings for AD but I am still getting the same details in the log file.

  13. #13

    Geoff's Avatar
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    The hostname changer also presumes you've installed the Windows XP Support Tools (or equivalent) as it uses the 'netdom.exe' command line tool to rename the machine.

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

  14. #14

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    Got it. I set the password in the Fog service but not the AD part of the host.

    Rebooted now. Just getting access denied from netdom now.

    Getting there.

    CHeers

    Dave

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    from the ping thread

    FOG Server Install (Free Opensource Ghost) - Spiceworks Community

    Not sure of any of that is of any use ?

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