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IT News Thread, Digital Natives Take a Different Approach to Security in Other News; There is a rather good, if short article on about a speech by Symantecs CEO at the RSA 2012 conf ...
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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Digital Natives Take a Different Approach to Security

    There is a rather good, if short article on about a speech by Symantecs CEO at the RSA 2012 conf in The Register today: Younger generation taking 'sledgehammer' to security ? The Register
    And it does give a lot of food for thought, especially the suggestion that firewalls should be redesigned to not only monitor incoming traffic, but equally, outgoing.

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    X-13's Avatar
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    OOOOOR... they just follow the current rules.

    "So... how do I go about connecting my iPad to the network?"

    "You don't. This is how we do things here. You don't like it; you don't work here."

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    The comments are well worth a few minutes of your time, and as much as it may be a veiled sales push for Symantec there are a couple of valid points. BYOD is happing, in fact I wonder how long it'll be before job ads have 'Must have clean driving licence and W7 laptop/Office 2010' in the job spec?
    Perhaps as part of the new curriculum there should be a 'security' module just to let kids know just what can - and does - happen to the unwary and how to avoid it happening to them?

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    in fact I wonder how long it'll be before job ads have 'Must have clean driving licence and W7 laptop/Office 2010' in the job spec?
    Never. That would be unfair discrimination.

    Your appliances have no relation to your ability to do your job. [Compantancy.]


    Also, what if the requirement is Win7/500GB SSD]/8GB RAM[or better] and you just can't afford it. Or you run Linux/GNU or Apple.

    Would they be allowed to ignore applications because of software conflicts?

    "You're more than qualified, and come highly recommended... But, [software/OS] isn't compatable with our network. I'm out."


    This comment pretty much sums up my view on this:

    Seconded here; these new "digital natives" are just like you and I physiologically; Mk I Caveman, in other words. They may be suffering from a mild sort of attention deficit disorder a lot of the time (which is what continuous partial attention is) and spend way too much time pratting about with devices designed to strongly appeal to the social-monkey in all of us, but fundamentally they're the same.

    "Continuous partial attention" effectively means "Cannot concentrate on one thing exclusively", which translates as "Good luck getting a full day's work out of this numptie"! Furthermore, these digital natives are only people who have learned to work with the designed GUI interfaces of these digital devices; in many cases they are far inferior to older people who know and can hack around in the guts of digital systems, deep below the interface. In the Computing Department of the Uni I work for, considerable effort is put into making the front end of the RedHat variant they use as unlike a modern Windows/KDE/Gnome as possible, to discourage the use of point'n'drool interfaces as much as possible. Digital Natives, they have found, make lousy computer scientists unless you shock them out of using the standard interfaces and get them back to commandlines.
    Le EDIT Mk.2: Oh, God... It's like I wrote ALL the comments...
    Last edited by X-13; 29th February 2012 at 12:39 PM.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    There are already jobs which say that you supply you own vehicle and it must be capable of doing x and meeting criteria y. If that is locked down to a particular solution that works for that company then there is nothing wrong with that as you are fitting around them, not them around you ... and as long as it is clear from the very beginning and not a hidden requirement there is no issue.

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    It wasn't even thinly disguised.

    It was "ooh, it's all changing (with nothing to back up his assertions), why don't we sell you something to soothe your concerns?"

    And (as was pointed out in the comments thread) his argument wasn't even coherent (my emphasis).

    Salem said that the average US 21-year-old has sent over 250,000 emails, text messages, and IM sessions, has spent over 14,000 hours online, and doesn't accept information from a single source, but checks with his or her network instead. They use email rarely and have never known life without the internet. They even think differently, multitasking constantly in what he called "continuous partial attention."
    Yes, maybe he does have email vs IM vs text message figures that shows a distinct bias away from email, but he didn't use them.

    Younger people entering the workforce will bring new ideas and ways of doing stuff, but this isn't a startling revelation, it's pretty much expected. And frankly, any employee who blindly accepts data without checking it's correct (however they do that) shouldn't have a job.

    However, "the spotty herbert is going to make business decisions based around what his fellow spotty herberts on facebook think" warning is worth writing a couple of IDS rules for.
    Last edited by pete; 29th February 2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: e

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    There are already jobs which say that you supply you own vehicle and it must be capable of doing x and meeting criteria y. If that is locked down to a particular solution that works for that company then there is nothing wrong with that as you are fitting around them, not them around you ... and as long as it is clear from the very beginning and not a hidden requirement there is no issue.
    But having a car and being able to drive is different that needing a specific piece of hardware, with certain specs or OS.

    The company bought the software/designed the way of working, it's up to them to make sure the worker can use it.

    Which means supplying hardware if necessary. [Which includes the user refusing to use their own device.]


    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    And (as was pointed out in the comments thread) his argument wasn't even coherent (my emphasis).
    My favorite comment on that error was:

    "I don't usually send e-mails... But when I do I REALLY send e-mails."

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Trying to market the ability to multitask effectively is getting it all wrong.

    Apart from hating the phrase "digital native", the other big problem to my mind is that it so often translates as "digitally naive". This nebulous new generation has always grown up around computers and the internet, accept it as a natural part of life, and are therefore completely lacking in the appropriate levels of cynicism and mistrust necessary to safely use such devices. They will give any company/app whatever levels of access they are asked to give to their personal information because they don't seem to make the connection between the app and the company. They think it's just their phone asking and they trust their phone.

    I'm telling you, it's these digital natives that will hand over control of the nuclear stockpile to SkyNet.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    It is interesting to still see many big names still using the term Digital Natives, even though the work by Marc Prensky has been mis-used to categorise the groups by age rather than by experience as people have grown up / learnt. There is still a lot of resistance to the idea of digital natives, but some of the blind refusal to accept the research around the neuroscience is a tad strange. Yes, there is a change but it needs to be taken in context and is not restricted purely to children to 20-somethings ...
    Digital Native from Neil Selwyn is a good read around this, and I heartily recommend following Steve Wheeler's blog which delves into this occasionally (along with VLEs and other aspects of tech in education).

    As for attention span ... Prensky raises an interesting point in one of his letters ... yes, if you (as a business) measure attention span against that of your old ways of working then you can find it lacking (but not across the board) ... which is why schools and businesses need to be encouraged to redesign how they work and they can find that it is even more productive than their old ways. At one conference I was at last year a round table discussion equated this to the change which happened as people read (due to the impact of the printing press) rather than relied on oral tradition. It doesn't mean that we no longer tell stories to each other, but the stories have changed to cope with it and we now have even more stories than we had before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    But having a car and being able to drive is different that needing a specific piece of hardware, with certain specs or OS.

    The company bought the software/designed the way of working, it's up to them to make sure the worker can use it.

    Which means supplying hardware if necessary. [Which includes the user refusing to use their own device.]
    I have a car ... it doesn't mean I can fit a 3 piece suite into it if I want to take a job as a delivery driver (with own vehicle).

    It is not up to the employer to change the way they work if they don't have to. It is up to the employer to employ people who can work in their company. Their rules. If you don't like it then get a job elsewhere. They don't *have* to be flexible when choosing their employees ... as long as they comply with the relevant laws (sex / age / race discriminations, keeping to published JD / person spec) then specifying that you have to have a particular device because that is how they work is fine. We may think it is a stupid way of working, but if the impact of opening it up to any and every device is going to cost too much, then they can set the restrictions.

    In Schools we have a different issue with BYOD. If it is compulsory for children to attend the school then we have to be reasonable as to what we specify as usable devices. A business *choosing* to employ someone does not have that restriction and can be as picky as they want.



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