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IT News Thread, PayPal forces buyer to destroy $2500 pre-WWII antique violin in dispute in Other News; If PayPal deems your item to be counterfeit, even when it's not, this is what will happen. Caveat venditor !!! ...
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    PayPal forces buyer to destroy $2500 pre-WWII antique violin in dispute

    If PayPal deems your item to be counterfeit, even when it's not, this is what will happen. Caveat venditor!!!

    Source: www.regretsy.com/2012/01/03/from-the-mailbag-27/ (Via)

    I sold an old French violin to a buyer in Canada, and the buyer disputed the label.

    This is not uncommon. In the violin market, labels often mean little and there is often disagreement over them. Some of the most expensive violins in the world have disputed labels, but they are works of art nonetheless.

    Rather than have the violin returned to me, PayPal made the buyer DESTROY the violin in order to get his money back. They somehow deemed the violin as “counterfeit” even though there is no such thing in the violin world.



    The buyer was proud of himself, so he sent me a photo of the destroyed violin.

    I am now out a violin that made it through WWII as well as $2500. This is of course, upsetting. But my main goal in writing to you is to prevent PayPal from ordering the destruction of violins and other antiquities that they know nothing about. It is beyond me why PayPal simply didn’t have the violin returned to me.

    I spoke on the phone to numerous reps from PayPal who 100% defended their action and gave me the party line.

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Wow...just wow...he should sue!

    No way are paypal within their rights to tell a person to destroy the article, in a dispute such as this, the item should be sent back and a refund given.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    the item should be sent back and a refund given.
    That would certainly be the most sensible thing to do, especially since PayPal haven't physically inspected the item to verify its authenticity. However, when you create a PayPal account you do agree to their TOS which states the following...

    PayPal User Agreement (US version)
    10.1 Your Liability.
    b. Liability for Claims under PayPal Purchase Protection. If you are a Seller and PayPal makes a final decision that you lose a Claim filed directly with PayPal, you will be required to reimburse PayPal for your liability. Your liability will include the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping cost (and in some cases you may not receive the item back). You will not receive a refund of your PayPal fees. PayPal Seller protection may cover your liability—see Section 11 (Protection for Sellers) below.

    If a buyer files a Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claim for an item they purchased from you, you will generally be required to accept the item back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. You will not receive a refund on your PayPal fees. Further, if you lose a SNAD Claim because we, in our sole discretion, reasonably believe the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed). PayPal Seller protection will not cover your liability. (Source)
    PayPal User Agreement (UK version)
    13.7 Scope of coverage
    Payment Recipients: As a Payment Recipient you are liable to PayPal if you lose a Claim from a buyer with a PayPal account registered anywhere in the world. This includes, without limitation, where you sell to a buyer who is a Full Programme User and the buyer files a SNAD Claim, in which case you will generally be required to accept the item back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. You will not receive a refund on your PayPal fees. If you lose a Significantly Not as Described Claim because the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed). (Source)
    I hope PayPal do get sued for this!

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Looking further into this, the violins authenticity was proven by the maker in Switzerland BEFORE being sold!!!!

    How the hell can it be deemed counterfeit if the makers are confirming its authenticity?

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    speckytecky's Avatar
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    On the strength of this and other similar articles I have read Pay Pal have now lost me as a customer.

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paypal
    if you lose a SNAD Claim because we, in our sole discretion, reasonably believe the item you sold is counterfeit,
    That's your problem, right there.

    As far as I know, Paypal don't employ antique violin experts.

    So, their opinion on the matter is worthless.

    +1 to sue Paypal for idiocy.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Surely this has to be breaching some sort of trading standard? How on Earth can PayPal have the power to order an item be destroyed? If they genuinely believed it was counterfeit, it should be handed over to the police to deal with.

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