Put young children on DNA list, urge police

[FN-GM]

Don’t lock It just leave it, I think we can all carry on without feeling the need to argu?

[jcollings]

Don’t lock It just leave it, I think we can all carry on without feeling the need to argu?

Perhaps but I'm fed up playing devils advocate and don't want to have to write any more on the subject.

[Gibbo]

This seems to have turned into a general crime / ID card argument now, rather than the pros and cons of a DNA database.

My take on a DNA database is that it's only like fingerprinting being used back in whenever it was. It was a breakthrough to aid crime detection.

A DNA database is just the same. There was a crime in Bolton a couple of years ago when a prostitute was killed. My ex's brother was in the area at the time and also partially matched the age and size of the suspect. Because of this, he was collected from his workplace by the police to give a DNA sample. Of course, he was innocent, but again - how much police time and resources did it take to go round picking up everyone to eliminiate them? Not to mention the embarassment of being taken away from your workplace by the police - imagine that happening to any of us in a school?

Now, if his DNA had been on file, it could have been checked and he could have been eliminated without even been bothered by the police.

[GrumbleDook]

Been on both sides of that ... collecting and being collected. That is why it is called 'helping the police with their inquiries'!

Unfortunately we are a society that likes to believe in innocent until proven guilty, but still tends to presume the worst. Whilst this would normally support your arguement I think that we actually need to spend time educating society about the roles of police. We all see The Bill and so on ... and we tend to only see them interviewing the person that eventually charge ... unless it fits the story to do otherwise. In realisty a large number of people may be interviewed and questioned. Some under caution and some not. Remember that being cautioned is actually a formal notification that you are speaking on the record ... not that you have been arrested in suspicion of having committed an offence (aiding and abetting is an offence in itself, as is perjury)

The DNS database holds many good points, and for present day cases it has so many positives going for it that it is hard to say no to it. However, historical methods of collecting samples and evidence is not at the standard that it is today ... and I am only talking about evidence taken 5 years ago, never mind the stuff for cold / drifting cases. At the point a sizable amount of risk comes in and even the CPS demand that the evidence is more robust that it is for recent sampling. However, mistakes get made and the ratio of mismatches or cross-contamination increases to the point of where it is less sucessful than conventional fingerprinting. There are websites around that publish these mistakes (and this evidence is used as a counter arguement about the DNA database).

Then we get back to the security issues of a central database ... already covered ... no point going there again.

Then we get back to the largest risk in all of this ... not the security of the database, but the security of the samples and evidence. There are too many ways at this point in time to tamper with evidence to say it is robust. When submitting DNA evidence you not only submit the result, but you submit the full implementation of how you worked to get to that result. That includes the transport of evidence, the number of samples tested, etc ... and this is open to attack by both the prosecution and defence. I would have to check the stats (available on various SOCO sites) but it used to be around 1/3 of cases have DNA evidence thrown out due to incorrect procedures meaning the evidence is not robust.

If we tie up that aspect of the issue then I would be happier.

And yes ... I wish it was all like CSI ... then we wouldn't have to worry!

[Andrew_C]

(c) The Manics

The future teaches you to be alone
The present to be afraid and cold
So if I can shoot rabbits
Then I can shoot fascists

Bullets for your brain today
But we'll forget it all again
Monuments put from pen to paper
Turns me into a gutless wonder

And if you tolerate this
Then your children will be next
And if you tolerate this
Then your children will be next
Will be next
Will be next
Will be next

But as I said at the start of this thread, I'm not convinced that there is no value...

[localzuk]

I'm not suggesting the police are perfect by nay means - there is racism in the police just as anywhere but I don't think they are as bad as painted. On the whole I think they do a good job.

Just a quick comment here - I sent a request for information regarding the number of complaints lodges against police officers in Avon & Somerset police and have received the following:

There were 1050 complaints between 1st April and 31st March. That is a lot of complaints!

Also, they told me that there were 23 cases which were settled for unlawful arrest in the year 2006/07 - costing around £60k in total.

And Avon & Somerset is one of the 'less sleazy' forces in the country.