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IT News Thread, Google Glass now available to purchase in the UK in Other News; Originally Posted by abillybob The more cameras the better if you ask me, they serve a protection purpose and as ...
  1. #16

    StevieM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    The more cameras the better if you ask me, they serve a protection purpose and as long as you're not doing anything wrong in the first place then what's the problem?
    So you'd be happy if I stood outside your window taking photographs of you in your house, then posted them on the Internet? Perhaps we could install a live webcam in your bathroom. You're not doing anything wrong, so what's the problem.

    Obviously, I'm being facetious here. I have no problem with cameras, per se; I have problems with how cameras are used and who uses them. I'm happy to be caught on camera if there is a justifiable reason, not just at the whim of a passing individual to do whatever they like with my most personal possession.

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  3. #17

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    The more cameras the better if you ask me, they serve a protection purpose and as long as you're not doing anything wrong in the first place then what's the problem, your caught on camera up to 300 times a day depending on where you live already so why does it bother people when more cameras are coming anyway, they protect us and help police etc... I have never understood the big issue with this whole "Big Brother" concept everyone is throwing around, do you care if someone has you on camera but you're not doing anything wrong?

    The problem is if that someone tomorrow wrote-off your car while you where in the shops and then came back to it and those people in question had drove off you'd be asking for CCTV footage, you'd be gutted and upset if they didn't have any record of it or for example god forbid someone did something totally brutal and vile towards you or a member of your family on a night out in a street, bet you'd be happy there was cameras then to catch the person who did it!

    My point being is everyone is so quick to say this kind of stuff but camera's actually serve a huge purpose in protecting us from our day to day lives, think of how many more crimes would go unsolved if cameras where never invented! Just my honest opinion.
    Mmm 'cos every single person involved in monitoring CCTV is a paragon of virtue, protecting us from the evil baddies and the system is never misused right?
    I could spend my time posting examples of why a surveillance state is bad but just Googling 'Surveillance abuse' should suffice.

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  5. #18

    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieM View Post
    So you'd be happy if I stood outside your window taking photographs of you in your house, then posted them on the Internet? Perhaps we could install a live webcam in your bathroom. You're not doing anything wrong, so what's the problem.

    Obviously, I'm being facetious here. I have no problem with cameras, per se; I have problems with how cameras are used and who uses them. I'm happy to be caught on camera if there is a justifiable reason, not just at the whim of a passing individual to do whatever they like with my most personal possession.
    A home is for privacy and to get away that is my justification Inside your hone on your land it's up to that individual but not on the street you're in public domain the issue would be that if none was happy being video'd or having themselves if a photograph of another person it would mean that you couldn't go to the Statue of Liberty for example and take a picture of yourself on the top as there would most likely be others in the photograph, we would be going backwards technology wise and you would no longer be able to take a photo of yourself or your family having a good time on holiday and it would make things like that very difficult and unnecessary not to mention new reports etc...

    I don't care if they have my face on camera, really? What are they going to do with it? Shove it on the internet whoopty doo theres 100's of pictures of me on my FaceBook and other various sites I have been on, my face is already on the internet and I'm sure so is yours somewhere, so is anybody's that has ever signed up to a service that includes a profile of yourself. There's only so much you can hide and if you live in the dark ages burying your head in the sand and are too scared of anyone posting your face on the internet (doing nothing wrong) then you're being far to paranoid imo.

    People aren't telepathic and therefore don't know the exact time and location your going to be in and then start taking a video of you, none knows so I'd rather them be monitored and watched over all the time for my own safety than not to be watched at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Mmm 'cos every single person involved in monitoring CCTV is a paragon of virtue, protecting us from the evil baddies and the system is never misused right?
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    I could spend my time posting examples of why a surveillance state is bad but just Googling 'Surveillance abuse' should suffice.

    People will always abuse systems of any kind this is the real world of course, but the majority don't and it is against the law to do so, they can't do a great deal when abusing surveillance and it doesn't harm anyone it's more of an annoyance than anything! But those people will eventually be caught and justice will be taken and then they won't be able to monitor CCTV again! Majority of it's good not bad, we could have the same talk about any systems as anything ever can always be abused when in the wrong hands it doesn't mean that CCTV is a bad thing!
    Last edited by abillybob; 24th June 2014 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I don't care if they have my face on camera, really? What are they going to do with it? Shove it on the internet
    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Removing myself from flaming dating websites! Yesterday logged into my email to my horror there was 10 different dating website agencies that had signed me up some how, they where frequently using my Profile Picture from Facebook and it had all my information on there! LIKE WTF! I have never signed up to one before in my life! Sites like adultfriendfinder, nostringsaffairs, peachmate!!! I mean what the hell!

    I have literally had to logon to each one of them (seeing some quite interesting pictures courtesy of the other members) and had to find ways to delete my accounts, I just don't understand how this is happening I am so of right now!!!

    FYI: Don't Google the names of the sites they're very NSFW!!!!!!
    'nuff said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieM View Post
    'nuff said.
    Haha - 1 , 0 to StevieM!

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    Thought you'd like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I have never understood the big issue with this whole "Big Brother" concept everyone is throwing around, do you care if someone has you on camera but you're not doing anything wrong?
    The whole "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument terrifies me. There are a great many arguments against it, and a lot of great people have spoken against it; particularly Benjamin Franklin, "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," and Cardinal Richelieu, "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged."

    If you want a single, succinct reason why it's such a scary prospect: who decides what's wrong? Homosexuality was wrong fifty years ago. Landing at an airport with journalistic documents is apparently wrong now. Who knows what could be wrong tomorrow, and if you were caught on camera doing it yesterday?

    OT: I've completely lost interest in Google Glass. I mean, it seemed cool when it was announced, but it already seems old hat to me and a bit, well, dull. I'd much rather have an Oculus Rift

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  13. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    The whole "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument terrifies me. There are a great many arguments against it, and a lot of great people have spoken against it; particularly Benjamin Franklin, "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," and Cardinal Richelieu, "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged."

    If you want a single, succinct reason why it's such a scary prospect: who decides what's wrong? Homosexuality was wrong fifty years ago. Landing at an airport with journalistic documents is apparently wrong now. Who knows what could be wrong tomorrow, and if you were caught on camera doing it yesterday?

    OT: I've completely lost interest in Google Glass. I mean, it seemed cool when it was announced, but it already seems old hat to me and a bit, well, dull. I'd much rather have an Oculus Rift
    Good point though I also think it comes from personal past experience, a close friend of mine was sexually assaulted and beaten on the Bridgnorth Hospital Walk at night while walking back from town, there was no camera's there, the person who committed the offence was eventually found after around a year later but he did admit and said he chose hospital walk as there wasn't any camera's, maybe if there where camera's there this would have deterred him enough not to go through with it!
    I have also had many problems where 3 years ago while I was overtaking a bus there was an elderly man who decided to turn right into a pub, he showed no signs of stopping so I was unaware and I ended up in hospital, knocked out with my collar bone broken in 3 different places and I wasn't allowed to move, nothing came of this due to insufficient evidence, maybe if there where camera's id of had a better case and could have got compensated for the state I was left in after I healed.
    I also had a few occasions but this one was particularly bad where my car was parked in a multi story car park, it was a brand new car 206 cc Covertible and I loved it, someone must have reversed leaving a huge dent and scraped all the paint off, you guessed it the CCTV just missed my car and I had no case which cost me around £1000 to put right, maybe if there was one more camera it would have been different.

    In all of these cases cameras could have helped me out vastly and helped my friend out, I have a camera on everything 4 now in my car to get all angles with motion detection, I have CCTV on our house and anywhere I might be most vulnerable, it's upsetting that I feel the need to do this but I do feel that nowadays you just can't trust others to respect you or your property and I'd much rather something happen and be able to find the culprits rather than something happening and them getting away with it, it really angers me.

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    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Ok here we go:

    1) CCTV cameras are not effective
    Studies show that CCTV has little effect in reducing crime or the fear of crime:



    One of the above indicates that the effectiveness of CCTV is related to the quality of the monitoring, this is difficult to address when studies show that people can only effectively monitor CCTV for about 20 mins (its just too boring a job to maintain our attention): https://www.ncjrs.org/school/ch2a_5.html

    If we are talking about preventing terrorism, then suicide bombers aren't particularly bothered about appearing on CCTV, and for petty crimes hoodies are an effective measure to beat CCTV.

    2) CCTV is open to abuse
    There are many examples of CCTV abuse by the people are supposed to trust. For example the US policeman who used police databases and licenceplate information to blackmail married visitors to a gay club: Washingtonpost.com: Chief's Friend Accused of Extortion

    During the civil rights movement in the US, the FBI used surveillance to track people who were fighting against black/white segregation.

    3) CCTV has a history of discriminatory targeting
    The West Midlands Police used anti-terrorism money to blanket 2 Muslim areas with 200 cameras (but were forced to bin them): BBC News - 'Mistakes made' over Birmingham surveillance cameras and studies have shown that in the UK where black people are around twice as likely to surveilled (as with stop and searches).

    4) History of Voyeurism
    Examples abound of (mostly male) CCTV camera operators engaging in voyeurism, one notable example is when a US police helicopter was supposed to be monitoring the crowd at a Republican Convention but was found to actually be watching an 'amourous couple' engaging in some nighttime activity on a rooftop!

    So, they don't cut crime, they don't make us feel safer and the operators can't be trusted. So what's the point of flooding the streets with them and invading our privacy.
    Last edited by sparkeh; 24th June 2014 at 11:47 AM.

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    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Ok here we go:

    1) CCTV cameras are not effective
    Studies show that CCTV has little effect in reducing crime or the fear of crime:



    One of the above indicates that the effectiveness of CCTV is related to the quality of the monitoring, this is difficult to address when studies show that people can only effectively monitor CCTV for about 20 mins (its just too boring a job to maintain our attention): https://www.ncjrs.org/school/ch2a_5.html

    If we are talking about preventing terrorism, then suicide bombers aren't particularly bothered about appearing on CCTV, and for petty crimes hoodies are an effective measure to beat CCTV.

    2) CCTV is open to abuse
    There are many examples of CCTV abuse by the people are supposed to trust. For example the US policeman who used police databases and licenceplate information to blackmail married visitors to a gay club: Washingtonpost.com: Chief's Friend Accused of Extortion

    During the civil rights movement in the US, the FBI used surveillance to track people who were fighting against black/white segregation.

    3) CCTV has a history of discriminatory targeting
    The West Midlands Police used anti-terrorism money to blanket 2 Muslim areas with 200 cameras (but were forced to bin them): BBC News - 'Mistakes made' over Birmingham surveillance cameras and studies have shown that in the UK where black people are around twice as likely to surveilled (as with stop and searches).

    4) History of Voyeurism
    Examples abound of (mostly male) CCTV camera operators engaging in voyeurism, one notable example is when a US police helicopter was supposed to be monitoring the crowd at a Republican Convention but was found to actually be watching an 'amourous couple' engaging in some nighttime activity on a rooftop!

    So, they don't cut crime, they don't make us feel safer and the operators can't be trusted. So what's the point of flooding the streets with them and invading our privacy.
    I'm not saying that your comment isn't valid or that I don't want to listen but I have my own opinion and CCTV makes me feel that bit safer. When you crash because of someone else's fault and you can't work, in a hospital bed and left with multiple scars but didn't have the evidence to prove it was his fault you'd of wished you'd of invested in a £20 dash cam, just saying. I for one like it and I always will stating all these facts aren't going to change my opinion on CCTV but thank you for the info.

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    Zoom7000's Avatar
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    £1000?! Are they nuts?!

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    I appreciate that there are valid arguments both for and against CCTV. However, I feel that the thread is drifting a little from Google Glass. My beef was about individuals capturing me on camera without my knowledge.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    I have to say, I'd probably buy one if I could afford it! I do like augmented reality as a technology though!

    Quote Originally Posted by StevieM View Post
    My beef was about individuals capturing me on camera without my knowledge.
    They can do this now anyway, Glass is neither here nor there with this. The law is clear on it too.
    Last edited by localzuk; 24th June 2014 at 12:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom7000 View Post
    £1000?! Are they nuts?!
    I would want them to pay me that per day to wear them.

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    It does surprise me the amouunt of anti new tech sentiment on here. I would have thought that we would be all for some new technology and embracing its use, finding out its limits, possibilites and how we could use it to improve quality of life.



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