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IT News Thread, Apple have been 'inventing' again... in Other News; Originally Posted by LosOjos Another good one, in Steve Jobs' key note speech announcing the iPhone back in 2007, he ...
  1. #46

    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Another good one, in Steve Jobs' key note speech announcing the iPhone back in 2007, he claims that Apple invented multi-touch; completely untrue.
    Is that what he said, or did he claim the first multitouch interface on a phone? I think it was the latter. In any case, the patent office has validated Apple's multitouch patents - FOSS Patents: U.S. patent office confirmed all 20 claims of the Steve Jobs patent: bad for Samsung, Google

    Like or hate the patent system. These patents were challenged and have been found to be valid after a thorough review.

    On top of all this, Apple didn't even 'invent' the specific multi-touch screen in the iPhone; it was made by a company called Fingerworks, whom Apple acquired in 2005.
    This doesn't really work for your argument here. If Apple bought the company that made the multi-touch screens two years before the iPhone then that business and its employees were then absorbed into Apple and; therefore, part of Apple did invent or make that technology.

    Call it semantics if you want, but if we follow this train of though then nothing Microsoft ever did with QDOS to remake it into MS-DOS and later Windows really matters and their claims to be the owners or "inventors" of Windows is made null and void. I'm trying to show how ludicrous some of these whines about Apple really are.

  2. #47

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    I'm trying to show how ludicrous some of these whines about Apple really are.
    And in doing so you are showing yourself to be a massive fanboy who wont hear a bad word against Apple, even when the facts are presented. It smacks of being a douche. Because of your fanboyish behaviour (which is worse than how Sony fans are!) you are the first person in my 5.5 years on this site, that I have blocked.
    Last edited by nephilim; 1st April 2014 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #48

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    The problem with Apple has always been bovine excrement. They're really good at it, but that's just another term for marketing/sales.

    "The world's thinnest laptop". Nope, it wasn't.
    "The world's best mobile phone". Nope, it wasn't, plus that was subjective and they were never allowed to run adverts saying that. But did anyway because they could afford to front the legal costs.
    "We did x" "We did y". Yes, you did. Jesus apparently walked on water too. It's all subjective. People often forget how much of a ruthless, arrogant, selfish t*** that Jobs was yet still speak about him like he was The Saviour Himself. A bit like Ayrton Senna, but at least he made an effort to changed before dying.

    Perhaps we should concentrate on the positives. Apple help drive innovation. Usually not them doing it, but they certainly help drive it. Innovation, competition, it all helps.

  4. #49

    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    And in doing so you are showing yourself to be a massive fanboy who wont hear a bad word against Apple, even when the facts are presented. It smacks of being a douche. Because of your fanboyish behaviour (which is worse than how Sony fans are!) you are the first person in my 5.5 years on this site, that I have blocked.
    I'm very proud to be the first person you have blocked Nephilim if you have that much difficulty with rational arguments and enjoy calling people names rather than having a decent, hearty discussion.

    Also, if you weren't just screaming "fanboy" at me all of the time, you might find out that I:

    1. Never owned any Apple products before 2006, not even an iPod.
    2. Have criticism for Apple and others where it is due.
    3. Recommended Office 365 and provide advice on Windows networks
    4. Offer advice on Exchange migrations and have positive feelings toward Exchange, although it is far from perfect. I also like the Domino back end and web interface, but the clients is oh, so bad.
    5. Would love to see an Ubuntu phone take off. and would be among the first in line to buy one to replace my iPhone.
    6. Have loads of Unix experience (Solaris, AUX) from the 90s, and a decade of Windows development and/or infrastructure experience from 2002-present.
    7. Have been bringing in Chromebooks and have recommended Chromebooks over PCs, Macs, or iPads in some instances.

    Definitely all the hallmarks of an Apple Fanboy.
    Last edited by seawolf; 1st April 2014 at 12:28 PM.

  5. #50

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Is that what he said, or did he claim the first multitouch interface on a phone?
    No, he said "[Apple] have invented a new technology called multi-touch" - Steve Jobs announcing the first iPhone in 2007 - YouTube

    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    In any case, the patent office has validated Apple's multitouch patents - FOSS Patents: U.S. patent office confirmed all 20 claims of the Steve Jobs patent: bad for Samsung, Google

    Like or hate the patent system. These patents were challenged and have been found to be valid after a thorough review.
    As I have already said in this thread, the patent system is massively flawed. Rather than protecting the actual invenotrs, all the patent system does is sell the right to sue to the highest bidder. It's a farce. Not saying (nor have I said) that's Apple's fault, but that doesn't excuse Apple's behaviour. By all means buy the patents to protect your company, but chasing people down to sue them over something you know you didn't invent is a dick movbe. Once again I'll say I am not saying Apple are the only people to do this, but this thread was started because Apple are acting likes dicks again. I do not accept "everyone else does it" as a defence, this is not a playground.

    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    This doesn't really work for your argument here. If Apple bought the company that made the multi-touch screens two years before the iPhone then that business and its employees were then absorbed into Apple and; therefore, part of Apple did invent or make that technology.
    It works perfectly for my argument; Apple didn't invent half the things they claim they did, they just bought up the patents to give them the legal power to make these claims and sue others for using them. Once again, flawed patent system, douchebag lawyers (are you seeing a pattern yet?)

    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Call it semantics if you want, but if we follow this train of though then nothing Microsoft ever did with QDOS to remake it into MS-DOS and later Windows really matters and their claims to be the owners or "inventors" of Windows is made null and void. I'm trying to show how ludicrous some of these whines about Apple really are.
    I think part of the problem is that you think because I pointed out Apple's dickish behaviour that I'm somehow some other kind of fanboy - I'm not. I'm well aware that Microsoft bought QDOS, did a little tweaking and released it as MSDOS; again, not accepting "they did it so I can" as an argument. Windows is a completely different beast. It may have been built on a DOS core but it added many, many things that DOS wasn't capable of, just as MacOS did with it's nix core.

    BTW, neither Microsoft nor Apple invented the now universal Windowed desktop interface, Xerox PARC did: PARC (company) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (I know Wikipedia isn't the best source of reliable info but it is well documented elsewhere, you only need to Google for more information)

  6. #51

    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    No, he said "[Apple] have invented a new technology called multi-touch" - Steve Jobs announcing the first iPhone in 2007 - YouTube
    My bad. The patents however, say they did invent it. Like it or not. I don't like the patent system myself, but it's only game in town. So, in that sense yes it is a playground.

    It works perfectly for my argument; Apple didn't invent half the things they claim they did, they just bought up the patents to give them the legal power to make these claims and sue others for using them. Once again, flawed patent system, douchebag lawyers (are you seeing a pattern yet?)
    You are mistaking buying patents with buying companies. Apple bought the entire company and brought the employees onboard. If that's patent trolling then every company on earth that has ever bought another company must be in your bad books.

    I think part of the problem is that you think because I pointed out Apple's dickish behaviour that I'm somehow some other kind of fanboy - I'm not. I'm well aware that Microsoft bought QDOS, did a little tweaking and released it as MSDOS; again, not accepting "they did it so I can" as an argument. Windows is a completely different beast. It may have been built on a DOS core but it added many, many things that DOS wasn't capable of, just as MacOS did with it's nix core.
    I actually don't see anything wrong with what MS did with QDOS. They bought it at the asking price, did loads of development on top of it and made it a huge success. On the other hand, Apple does the same thing with a multi-touch OS and hardware and all of the anti-fruits scream bloody murder. Seems like a strange hypocrisy. Let's call things as they are and not cry foul only when a company with a fruit for their logo releases a new product.

    BTW, neither Microsoft nor Apple invented the now universal Windowed desktop interface, Xerox PARC did: PARC (company) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (I know Wikipedia isn't the best source of reliable info but it is well documented elsewhere, you only need to Google for more information)
    You're absolutely correct. Take a look at my original post and you'll see that I pointed that very fact out. Really, go back and read that post and you will find I was calling out loads of things that companies didn't invent, but only perfected or modified. That was the whole point of my "standing on the shoulders of giants" comment.

  7. #52

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    @seawolf - claim this as a "victory" if it makes you feel better but I am done with this. This argument is going nowhere, every time anybody points out anything Apple did wrong your immediate response is "yeah but so did $someone_else" which, as I have said so many times now it's getting really boring, is no defence nor would I accept it as defence for anyone else.

    You may not see yourself as a fanboy because you own and use other products but your actions online paint a very different picture. You accuse others of not being able to have a rational debate, yet you refuse to accept any wrongdoing on Apple's part - why, are they paying you to do that? No, didn't think so. Say what you like, but you are coming across as an Apple fanboy, in this thread and others.

  8. #53

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    Well, I'm done with this as well because if I say "x" I'm told that I said "y" so what is the point. It's like grasping for the wind.

  9. #54
    foofighterjim's Avatar
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    Come on everyone

  10. Thanks to foofighterjim from:

    LosOjos (1st April 2014)

  11. #55

    abillybob's Avatar
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  12. Thanks to abillybob from:

    LosOjos (1st April 2014)

  13. #56

    nephilim's Avatar
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    actually no, it didn't. Its been festering over time. Seawolf likes to paint the picture "I use everything and bash everything equally" but the moment someone mentions Apple didn't do something right, or didn't do something first, or didn't do something better, he jumps to their defense. This thread alone he has been proven wrong a few times, yet Apple can "still do no wrong" (or so the impression he paints.)

    Its just annoying, tedious and frankly, many of us (assuming here) are sick and tired of it.
    Last edited by nephilim; 1st April 2014 at 02:02 PM.

  14. #57

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Its just annoying, tedious and frankly, many of us (assuming here) are sick and tired of it.
    Although I've had one or two run-ins with @seawolf where I thought his arguments (while technically correct) have been a little over zealous, I will say this in his defence - (and this has been an interesting thread to sit back and chuckle over) It is interesting how quickly some members bemoan Apple as soon as anything to do with the company is brought up for whatever reason.

    Personally, I'm happy with Apple products. I enjoy using them. They tend to suite my personal requirements. I'm sure that's all that really matters at the end of the day. To hell with who originally invented the binary digit or whatever.

  15. #58

    nephilim's Avatar
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    I have no issue with Apple products, I have issue with Apple. Its a big difference. Apple products are well made (never said they weren't) and well marketed. Its just the BS and hype thrown in that people believe which bugs me. Apple are "allegedly" bringing out the worlds "first" waterproofed phone with the iPhone 6 - this is based off various tech web forums such as anandtech. That can go to Sony (or someone else if they did it first, I think maybe Nokia did it ages and ages ago?). Also Apple claimed they made multitouch, when they didn't (as proven in this thread). The fanboys will believe anything, and defend it with the sort of zealousness you'd expect from religious nutjobs.

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