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Network and Classroom Management Thread, cc4 needed in a primary school in Technical; Hi Everyone, One of our customers, a Primary school with about 150 computers, have been approached by RM with a ...
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    crazytechnician's Avatar
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    cc4 needed in a primary school

    Hi Everyone,

    One of our customers, a Primary school with about 150 computers, have been approached by RM with a view to getting them to purchase CC4. they already have a fully functioning vanilla network, with no issues. They have a very compitant technician working there, can you guys think of any pluses for having cc4 installed? as far as I can see it's going to cost a fortune with no real benefits for the teachers or students.

    Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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    jamesreedersmith's Avatar
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    There is nothing a CC4 would so that they cant do cheaper/better/in a different way.

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    crazytechnician (7th October 2011)

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    none RM bashing this but if vanilla works and compitent IT technician no need to change vise versa if already working with cc4 to vanilla

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    crazytechnician (7th October 2011), Roberto (12th October 2011)

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    Amen to that. If it ain't broke, don't even try to fix it. It's probably safe to say that whatever problems CC4 will solve the tech there would already have systems in place for. The only advantage that I can think of is that everything will be in one place.

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    crazytechnician (7th October 2011)

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    crazytechnician's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. They echo the thouhts we were having. I don't see the point in changing things for the sake of changing them.

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    stevenwba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    Amen to that. If it ain't broke, don't even try to fix it. It's probably safe to say that whatever problems CC4 will solve the tech there would already have systems in place for. The only advantage that I can think of is that everything will be in one place.
    are you talking in terms of the RMMC?

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    I'll have to agree - CC4 or similar is a no brainer for schools of that size that only have part time technical staff or have someone visit every now and then. However if they have a working system and competant staff, there is absolutely no benefit in moving over.

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    crazytechnician (12th October 2011)

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenwba View Post
    are you talking in terms of the RMMC?
    Yes indeed

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    Just thought I would add to this..

    I look after four primary schools and two are running CC4 and two are running vanilla networks with either Win 7 or XP.

    From my experience of both, a CC4 network seems to be more problematic than a vanilla network. As said before if you have a good IT Tech then you will probably find that he just gets frustrated with the RM system as I have.

    So I would avoid it even in the future. A well installed vanilla network is a lot more flexible.

    Also the cost of just adding a computer is increased. I've just had a quote for the software alone and you have the RM software pack is around £180 per machine and just for a client licence its £75. Justs add to the cost of the initial computer.
    Last edited by leics_Tech; 12th October 2011 at 10:20 AM.

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    crazytechnician (12th October 2011)

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Frankly at this point in time if you have a problematic CC4 system, then it's time to go to RM and shout - so they can come and fix their mistakes, or fix yours. The only problems I've seen with it (pre SR2) are down to RM not being able to get a workable migration system right. Since they've just started doing it from flat and going from there, there is rarely an issue. The CC4 network in our county's largest infant school that was planned and implemented by me last August has not had a single problem. It's kept up to date, the 2 or 3 problematic updates from RM were dealt with quickly, WSUS just runs, RMVP4 just ran and just worked, RMVP5.1 is just running and just working, performance is typical of a brand new CC4 system on low power but new computers and server (which also runs MIS). I generally go in and just double check things, add software as and when needed and fix non CC4 related problems (bloody printer software!)
    As said, it depends a lot on circumstance but I could be happy to leave that to run itself. I'm confident enough that our own school will run a vanilla network next year with very little propping up (and it's a big one) but I wouldn't suggest doing it without having someone on site.
    We all know about costs and RM etc but this isn't a "let's bash RM/CC3/CC4" thread- there's plenty of those already filled with posts of both the well informed and inflammatory variety. Those costs could (and often are) far less than an onsite techie or a part time teacher with the know-how.

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    crazytechnician (13th October 2011)

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    I am not bashing CC4, but I'd avoid CC4 at all costs for many reasons.

    I spend far more time at the schools with CC4 systems than other systems (CC3 included). The main problem is every time a core update is released, this results in most of the machines falling over and requiring to be rebuilt which takes a lot of time, and problems such as trying to get teachers laptops from them to do this, and laptops need to be hard wired, so if you have lots of wireless laptops this is very problematic. Read posts on here and their own Community Forums and most will agree to what I have said. Because the system is unique with their own Database you are also stuck with having to subscribe to RM support on a yearly basis (just to download updates to fix the problems with their buggy product), and their support costs increase every year. If you do need support, most of this is now down in a foreign country and not the UK. Then they release updates which break more than they fix, eventually releasing another update to fix what the last update broke, and this has happened far more than once! Not only that but the speed of systems on CC4 is appalling, due to all the RM tools running and loading. Older systems are almost impossible to use no matter how much RAM you fit in them. Vanilla is the way to go, but CSE is another option worth looking into which will give you a fast, stable Vanilla system with a toolbox to make tasks easier and meaning a permanent technician is not required.

    This is not bashing. This is fact.

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    CSE.. god help us all...

    As said before cc4 is fine but if all stable no point installing as feels like for the sake of it

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    I look after a CSE system and have never had any major problems with it. It just works, and is standard vanilla based so easy to configure and make changes the way Windows is suppose to be used. If you have a CC4 problem then it is usually CC4 specific that only the CC4 developers know how to fix.

    If RM release a CC4 update that is marked as critical, or will solve a problem you are having, you do feel compelled to install it. And like I said far too many times they have then broken more stuff than they have fixed meaning everything has to be rebuilt again. and again.

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    We all have bad experiences and good compared to others like my HP SAN hasnt had a problem in 3 years but someone elses exact same HP SAN falls over every 5 mins though I d break my own kneecaps than use CSE! but my personal opinion

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