+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48
Network and Classroom Management Thread, Moving from RM CC4 to Windows Network in Technical; Originally Posted by SYNACK Woah, Computers and networks do not make kids pass exams, learning does and that is a ...
  1. #31

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,943
    Thank Post
    1,199
    Thanked 1,071 Times in 762 Posts
    Rep Power
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Woah, Computers and networks do not make kids pass exams, learning does and that is a product of many things including teaching, environment and resources. Yes computers can be important and useful but drawing this kind of comparision is like me saying the global economy crashed because I forgot to pay my credit card bill.

    Both solutions can be valid, hell if Macs can be a valid solution there is a very deep pool of possibilities but lets leave out the outlandish claims. I for one know that I never got my Unicorn despite my calls to customer service .
    If you see the words teaching then this is what is meant by the post but without a solid communications system to allow not only the teaching staff but all members of staff to "communicate" this has helped the staff whole school to plan better lessons and teach better lessons therefore empowering the students to learn more and achieve better results and the proof of the concept is in just that "Results".

    I do not believe in any way shape or form that it is the network which has performed the teaching miracles but has had a really positive effect on the teaching and learning environment at our school to which the SLT would add their seal of approval.

    As for your analogy using a credit card non payment my be how you operate in your school but believe me without the smooth operations of a communications system which allows full and integrated services for everyone to use 24/7/365 then the teaching and learning in today's schools would be archaic to say the least.

    A poorly prepared teacher cannot and will not survive in today's schools and the biggest let down to our students are teachers who do not plan and use the communications systems to teach the students.

    The students learn through being taught but it is the tools with which they are taught with which gives them the confidence and skills to move into a bigger world away from school.

    What you are saying in your way is that students would learn from teachers if there were no communication systems via chalkboards and the like or would you have the students using a wax tablet or slate?

    Networks are as important to schools as they are to business and this has been proven many times over.

    How many of us use the internet (Youtube) to learn from, the same goes for students, they don't need teachers in a lot of cases only for the fundamentals like reading and writing with possibly maths as the third option but for creative learning there is nothing like the internet and a communications device of sort i.e. computer, mobile phone etc.

    Example: my son had never shown any leaning towards a musical instrument of any kind but 4 months ago he decided he would like to play the guitar, using his laptop and youtube he has taught himself to play and not only that he is now in 2 bands, one a rock band and another which is an Indie band. he plays Bass guitar in the rock band and lead or rythmn in the other.
    Both groups now play around the clubs and pubs and are doing very well for new groups but I digress so back to the point of teachers teaching students and networks they all go hand in hand I feel.

    This reply is not to inflame anyone but to put across what has happened at our school and why our SLT revere us as a much needed team and this is why the post took on that form.

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    853
    Thank Post
    111
    Thanked 112 Times in 108 Posts
    Rep Power
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    I may have misinterpreted this sentence as it is a little hard to read grammatically (Not implying anything) so as you can see it maybe that I have seen the "must not have the skills" I perceived this to be what you actually meant.

    My reply was not meant to antagonise but to give people another viewpoint.
    I m trying to read back what I said! My grammar is quite poor I ment people who moved to vanilla from CC3 saying they regret it and want to move back and it means they didnt plan properly not sure why I said skills I just brain dump as you can see

  3. Thanks to irsprint84 from:

    bossman (16th May 2011)

  4. #33

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,205
    Thank Post
    876
    Thanked 2,729 Times in 2,308 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    782
    @bossman - I'm not suggesting no coms systems or even that your implementation has not helped to improve outcomes in your school. I was just objecting to the grandious statment and tieing that to a single way of doing things. Not sure you got the intended meaning of the credit card bit, I was meaning that a change (small or large) in one area in a complex system will not automaticlly mean a change and that it takes many components. Insinuting stuff about my schools was kind of uncool too. As you will see from the end of my post I was suggesting that there are many valid solutions which I beleive backs up what you have been saying.

  5. #34

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,943
    Thank Post
    1,199
    Thanked 1,071 Times in 762 Posts
    Rep Power
    330
    @SYNACK:

    I do feel we could be on the same lines here but at cross purposes as we may have perceived things a little different to what we actually mean.

    I was in no way insinuating anything about your school in particular and it was by no means meant to inflame as I stated in my post, the credit card analogy was a little diverse but I understood what you were trying to say.

    I have no axe to grind with teachers or their methods of teaching but was merely trying draw attention to the fact that it is not always about the teachers or the teaching but the learning process and how it can be used effectively within a good network and communications infrastructure.

    I was in no way being grandiose and would like to state that for the record, I have always tried to be of help in any way to others on this forum and yes sometimes things that I say are sometimes taken the wrong way or perceived differently by other people and then turned against me.

    I may not know all the answers but respect everyone on this forum for their point of view and always try to see things from this angle.

    Its always hard to put over the context of what one is trying to portray especially on such a forum whereupon other members have such a high degree of knowledge.

    On this note it is always a pleasure to debate sensibly and adultly things which are in the forefront of our lives.

    all the best

  6. Thanks to bossman from:

    irsprint84 (16th May 2011)

  7. #35

    sparkeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    6,872
    Thank Post
    1,323
    Thanked 1,692 Times in 1,134 Posts
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    513
    @OP If you want something comparable to measure against, take a look at SCCM which will take care OS deployment and software deployment amongst many other things. Once you get it working correctly its pretty awesome.

    You can get a pretty long free trial so setting up a test lab is a good way to see if it fits your needs.

  8. Thanks to sparkeh from:

    tj2419 (16th May 2011)

  9. #36

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,943
    Thank Post
    1,199
    Thanked 1,071 Times in 762 Posts
    Rep Power
    330
    @irsprint84:

    As @Hightower has mentioned (not too many times in this thread) value for money with going vanilla is to use a product called Impero which I have had the opportunity to see in action.

    It covers a lot of the management tasks which you have in RMMC but without the cost.

    @Hightower When something works well you have to sing its praises and for us RM management software has for the past 9 years and the experience we have had of CC4 so far means we should be able to enjoy running a successful network for the next 9 years.

    I do hope your shift to a Vanilla system goes well and that it works for your school as well as RM has for ours (sincerely)

  10. Thanks to bossman from:

    russdev (16th May 2011)

  11. #37
    morganw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    816
    Thank Post
    46
    Thanked 132 Times in 126 Posts
    Rep Power
    40
    You might want to check out WPKG which is very similar to RM package management. I think eventually I'll aim for SCCM but the initial setup seems rather epic. It's probably a wise long term goal though, especially if you are on a Microsoft licensing agreement as they are pretty much giving it away compared to the commercial pricing.

    For Windows 7 deployment with MDT2010, this guide will show you everything you need to know. I've not used CC4 but I imagine it's based on some kind of WDS/MDT setup for OS deployment.

    I do miss the RM Management Console when it comes to setting up new users (creating home folders, setting permissions, settings AD user properties). In the end I wrote a script to do it. If you can use Group Policy Preferences then everything else is pretty straight forward without any scripting.

    The biggest change will be what you decide on for support, none, some (maybe even on an adhoc basis), or full setup and support by a third party. The last option would probably be similar to using an RM solution, if you don't use their GPOs and scripts you will probably invalidate your support (to some degree).

  12. #38
    morganw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    816
    Thank Post
    46
    Thanked 132 Times in 126 Posts
    Rep Power
    40
    I'll also say that we use LanSchool as a replacement for RM Tutor. I chose it based on the user interface (very self explanatory) and easy deployment (very easy to automate installation and setup). I also bought the SpecOps Remote Admin tool which is an easy way to quickly do basic management tasks from ADUC.

  13. #39

    russdev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    6,936
    Thank Post
    709
    Thanked 552 Times in 367 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    204
    @maark , @Hightower, @Jamo and @bossman

    Thank you for your kind comments on Impero...

  14. #40

    Hightower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Cloud 9
    Posts
    4,920
    Thank Post
    494
    Thanked 690 Times in 444 Posts
    Rep Power
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    I do hope your shift to a Vanilla system goes well and that it works for your school as well as RM has for ours (sincerely)
    I know you do mate and cheers

  15. #41

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    235
    Thank Post
    15
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts
    Rep Power
    24
    This is a old debate really thats been done to death on here, most of the people who believe that a RM system offer value for money do so under the false belief that a vanilla system is difficult to install and configure. Configuring GPOs and login scripts/batch files is a bread and butter job that any decent tech should be able to do. WDS to image computers and abtutor or italc to control.
    A good way to compare the RM tools with the standard and free admin tools available is to forget the cost and just compare the functions, I think most most Techs would still prefer the vanilla options even if RM tools were free.
    Bulk password control/AD bulk modify = free ,
    NTFS fix = free ,

  16. #42

    TechMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    3,299
    Thank Post
    226
    Thanked 412 Times in 305 Posts
    Rep Power
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose View Post
    This is a old debate really thats been done to death on here, most of the people who believe that a RM system offer value for money do so under the false belief that a vanilla system is difficult to install and configure. Configuring GPOs and login scripts/batch files is a bread and butter job that any decent tech should be able to do. WDS to image computers and abtutor or italc to control.
    A good way to compare the RM tools with the standard and free admin tools available is to forget the cost and just compare the functions, I think most most Techs would still prefer the vanilla options even if RM tools were free.
    Bulk password control/AD bulk modify = free ,
    NTFS fix = free ,
    Not wanting to go over it again (& again & again & again & again) but that isn't just where the value is seen. Having a system there so you are up and running from day 1 & you can build from there is the value. When we were looking at going from Win98 to XP we thought about vanilla and CC3. Originally we were against it but after weighing it up the value of having all the AD done, the users ready and machines ready to build from day 1, against us having to play with scripts, build the AD & learn it as we went and work out the best way to image machines we went with CC3. It saved us Dev time, tech time & fiddling, bodging and hacking time. The latter three being what I love but not useful to the school.

    Saying RM admins & techs imagine that configuring a vanilla system is difficult is once again saying they are less skilled or inferior. It isn't just skills or perception of skills, it is man power, time and resources. That is why it is a school by school decision.

  17. 2 Thanks to TechMonkey:

    bossman (17th May 2011), Sylv3r (17th May 2011)

  18. #43

    sparkeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    6,872
    Thank Post
    1,323
    Thanked 1,692 Times in 1,134 Posts
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    513
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose View Post
    This is a old debate really thats been done to death on here
    So you decide to fuel it some more? Cheers.
    most of the people who believe that a RM system offer value for money do so under the false belief that a vanilla system is difficult to install and configure.
    Grossly incorrect blanket statement without any evidence to support it.
    Configuring GPOs and login scripts/batch files is a bread and butter job that any decent tech should be able to do.
    Who is saying that techs who run CCx systems aren't able to do it?

    Trolling anti-RM nonsense was old years ago and it hasn't got any fresher since.

  19. #44

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    235
    Thank Post
    15
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts
    Rep Power
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey View Post
    Not wanting to go over it again (& again & again & again & again) but that isn't just where the value is seen. Having a system there so you are up and running from day 1 & you can build from there is the value. When we were looking at going from Win98 to XP we thought about vanilla and CC3. Originally we were against it but after weighing it up the value of having all the AD done, the users ready and machines ready to build from day 1, against us having to play with scripts, build the AD & learn it as we went and work out the best way to image machines we went with CC3. It saved us Dev time, tech time & fiddling, bodging and hacking time. The latter three being what I love but not useful to the school.

    Saying RM admins & techs imagine that configuring a vanilla system is difficult is once again saying they are less skilled or inferior. It isn't just skills or perception of skills, it is man power, time and resources. That is why it is a school by school decision.
    This is what I meant, I think a lot of RM techs think it takes a lot of man power and time to build and configure a vanilla network, now these things are all a matter of personal opinion, I think I and most techs could install and configure a vanilla system with GPOs etc in a day, using just the free tools mentioned above. If you keep it simple and neat and tidy then 2003 server and above are a doddle.
    I am currently preparing for our first room of Windows 7 client machines, I installed the admin tools on a windows 7 machine and configured the GPOs, it took about 2 hours but now when the 30 machines turn up next month they will deploy easily and be ready to use.

  20. #45

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    235
    Thank Post
    15
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts
    Rep Power
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    So you decide to fuel it some more? Cheers.

    Grossly incorrect blanket statement without any evidence to support it.

    Who is saying that techs who run CCx systems aren't able to do it?

    Trolling anti-RM nonsense was old years ago and it hasn't got any fresher since.
    no where in my previous post did I mention RM techs not having the skills needed, infact I used the term any decent tech, a generic term regardless of system used.
    Instead of trying to argue with me maybe you could help the original poster by pointing out what RM tools do that vanilla and free tools can't. We are all here to help each other and opinions will vary, which is why on a thread like this its probably more useful to the original poster to discuss the tools and functions rather than prices and manpower as they will vary from school to school.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Netbooks built via CC4 with Windows 7
    By hutchy in forum Netbooks, PDA and Phones
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12th April 2014, 12:49 PM
  2. RM CC4 Network Browser proxy configuration
    By MNHughes in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 24th January 2013, 07:33 PM
  3. Moving from CC3 to CC4 in Summer 2011...
    By BassTech in forum Network and Classroom Management
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 15th July 2011, 06:01 PM
  4. Do you have a Windows 7 CC4 network?
    By synaesthesia in forum East Midlands Broadband Consortium (EMBC)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 6th March 2011, 11:09 AM
  5. CC4 - Network drives are not displayed
    By bertster in forum Network and Classroom Management
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 3rd June 2010, 06:08 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •