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Network and Classroom Management Thread, From RM CC3 to who? in Technical; Neither myself or my network manager have ever supported a "DIY" network, so we're not trying to claim we are ...
  1. #46
    DrCheese's Avatar
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    Neither myself or my network manager have ever supported a "DIY" network, so we're not trying to claim we are clever. This is why we want an "OTS" network.
    Doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a try. Grab a few books, set up a few virtual machines and play. I'm not kidding when I say that it will take a week or two at most to get up to speed with it and it will save you a shed load of money in both the short and long term.

    To be blunt, if anyone claiming to be a "network manager" can't grasp the concepts behind it, then they are in the wrong job! That's how easy it is.

    To my knowledge you won't find anything other than RM if you want a managed AD, the entire concept is alien in the corporate world.

  2. #47

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    I got learn Windows server 2008 in 24 hours that all I needed to know! otherwise RM is the only way to go even CSE needs some Vanilla knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by irsprint84 View Post
    I got learn Windows server 2008 in 24 hours that all I needed to know! otherwise RM is the only way to go even CSE needs some Vanilla knowledge
    haha :P It's seriously possible if you put your mind to it, I think I spent an evening or so reading "mastering windows 2003 server" when I first learnt about active directory years ago and it was more than enough to get a grasp of the basics.

  4. #49

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    Funnily I m not joking! was quite a good book, not to come off badly but as NM you need to at least understand the concepts even if you dont know how to implement it

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    Quote Originally Posted by irsprint84 View Post
    I got learn Windows server 2008 in 24 hours that all I needed to know! otherwise RM is the only way to go even CSE needs some Vanilla knowledge
    Bah! RM CCx still has a Windows Server backend! Do people think that RM craft their products to take away all the Windows Server related stuff? They don't... it's still there for you to get to and you still have to interact with it.

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    Neither myself or my network manager have ever supported a "DIY" network, so we're not trying to claim we are clever. This is why we want an "OTS" network.
    I didn't think you were, and what you want is probably sensible..


    I'm not kidding when I say that it will take a week or two at most to get up to speed with it
    ..because this (and similar) is arrant nonsense. If you want a network that kinda-works-just then maybe, but if you want a good one e.g. in the same kind of ballpark as CC3 then it takes significantly longer to do from scratch - I reckon it's a minimum of 10 weeks to dot all the 'i's etc.
    Last edited by PiqueABoo; 10th June 2010 at 10:24 PM.

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    I am pretty new to the education space. What are people using CC3 for? Is it for lab management or also for staff desktop management?

    Geoff

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    CC3 is a complete network management system handling everything from user and PC management to package deployment and software/update management. All of which can be done via AD/GPO however this, like CC4 has an easy to use GUI over the top - it's precisely that and it's collection of pre-compiled tools which make it one of the preferred methods of network management; especially when there is less of a permanent IT presence on site. It's one of a fair few similar solutions such as Ranger (also RM) and Viglen Classlink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    I didn't think you were, and what you want is probably sensible..




    ..because this (and similar) is arrant nonsense. If you want a network that kinda-works-just then maybe, but if you want a good one e.g. in the same kind of ballpark as CC3 then it takes significantly longer to do from scratch - I reckon it's a minimum of 10 weeks to dot all the 'i's etc.
    I like RM but I m vanilla and I generally started from scratch all I needed to do was set up wds (1 day) Group policy settings (3/4 days) WininstallLE and packages (5 days) so about 2 weeks, which you d have to get RM to set up packaging etc.. so time about the same and this was by myself

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    all I needed to do was set up wds (1 day) Group policy settings (3/4 days) WininstallLE and packages (5 days) so about 2 weeks,
    Fine, but I'm certain that isn't what I'd call a good one *especially* in the policy area where something apparently simple like locking down bits of MS Office i.e. knocking out menu options, can take a long time unless you've done it before or found it ready-made somewhere. I conservatively reckon at least 3 - 4 weeks to get a decent set of properly tested GPOs (with GPPs required for some bits), then there's start menu delivery, perhaps desktop delivery (if you sensibly don't let them save stuff there), printer delivery, folder/share structures and NTFS perms, OU structure, bulk user import, equivalents of things like privileged users, perhaps synchronisation for staff laptops, quotas to sort out, preferably MDT for deployment (which takes a while to grok) and regardless you need a complete driver library and probably for an eclectic bunch of h/w, preferably something better than native s/w deployment, WSUS to set up and so on and so forth..

    Again, if you want a network that kinda-works-just then maybe, but if you want a good one e.g. in the same kind of ballpark (and where everything is there and just works from day one!) then from scratch there is no way you'll do it in two weeks *unless* you're essentially cloning one you made earlier.

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    Mine works perfectly and this is my first IT Manager job so I worked it out on the go and found group policy very easy you look down the list and it gives you a description of what it does disable or enable not exactly rocket science for Office you get the predefined ADM files, use 'google' and search for Microsoft Office GPO not particularly hard or time consuming

    Start menu -> gpp = 1 hour
    Printer -> install server, add to list, deploy group policy hmmm an hour
    Offline files, click a few option in group policy 10 mins
    Dont need MDT wds is sufficient
    WSUS -> add role, sync downloads go group policy and add where client point too - 20 mins

    As I said I learnt this as I went and did well within 2 weeks so I dont get your point

    Im not one of those anti RM people, this is nothing against RM because its quite good but something with vanilla you seem to know jack about
    Last edited by irsprint84; 17th June 2010 at 07:06 PM.

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    use 'google' and search for Microsoft Office GPO
    Have you ever used a control ID to knock out undesirable UI feature for a network with clueful hostile users? Ack, forget it - we can go round and round on this for ever so lets agree to disagree:

    - Fresh to the job you can set up up perfect Windows system in a couple of weeks and you think I "know jack" about it.

    - Meanwhile I've got 17 years of NT family admin, serious s/w dev for most of that period largely targeted at NT network/security/manglement, big roll-outs of fresh public-access proof systems since 95', enough security expertise to have been asked to help the NSA (US spooks) on their guidelines, have been rewarded for contributions to the "community" by the director of SAN etc., plus a thorough understanding of what the competition (CCx) have done, and I think a system in that ballpark that works perfectly from day one takes much longer and that maybe in 10 years time you'll get it.. although possibly not.

  13. Thanks to PiqueABoo from:

    ijk (18th June 2010)

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    I m sure I m a better cyclist than you but I not trying to have a ego contest, I did it in two weeks not trying to be some big shot that you're trying to come off as. I have physically done it with ease within two weeks I m certain even a novice can as well.

    Nothing works perfectly RM, CSE or Vanilla that is common sense, mine still has issues as everyone's network does, we wouldn't need network guys otherwise duh! but to setup a initial network takes two weeks max then develop as it goes

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    ::whatever::

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    If you want a network that kinda-works-just then maybe, but if you want a good one e.g. in the same kind of ballpark as CC3 then it takes significantly longer to do from scratch - I reckon it's a minimum of 10 weeks to dot all the 'i's etc.
    That's even more nonsense than what you accused me of.
    Firstly, I was saying it would take around a week or two to learn Vanilla AD/Windows networking, not building an entire network.
    Secondly I have no idea how you've come up with the 10 weeks idea to build a vanilla network at an average sized second school up to the level of a managed system.
    I conservatively reckon at least 3 - 4 weeks to get a decent set of properly tested GPOs
    Now I know your trolling. 3/4 weeks just on group policy?
    Don't get me wrong, but your seriously taking the mick if you think building up a decent vanilla system takes as long as you are proclaiming.
    Last edited by DrCheese; 17th June 2010 at 11:40 PM.



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