+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 81
Network and Classroom Management Thread, From RM CC3 to who? in Technical; I guess you don't want vanilla then...
  1. #16
    jsnetman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    887
    Thank Post
    23
    Thanked 134 Times in 126 Posts
    Rep Power
    40
    I guess you don't want vanilla then

  2. #17
    maark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    leicester
    Posts
    474
    Thank Post
    90
    Thanked 74 Times in 66 Posts
    Rep Power
    38
    managed solutions are just add-ons to vanilla to make it easier to use - have only experienced rm which was ok but very expensive, heard bad reports about cse, ranger was bought out by rm so doubt if it is any better/cheaper

  3. #18

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    Ok, my suggestion? Speak to Insight UK - they do whole system installs such as that which I am talking about, but don't do full managed software. Doing this, as jsnetman says, will save you tens of thousands of pounds.

    Other companies that do similar are Phoenix Software, and Computacenter. All of these companies are a part of the Catalist framework (specifically as a part of the 'Commoditised IT Hardware and Software - Specialist Channel Partners for Software' part.

    I fear you are not going to get a cheap fully managed package from anywhere, as firstly the transition from CC3 to anything else will cost a fair amount as it will take many manhours of work, then there is the installation of the new system and configuration, and finally training on it. That is simply a very costly process, hence CC4 costing so much.

  4. #19

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    18
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Ok, my suggestion? Speak to Insight UK - they do whole system installs such as that which I am talking about, but don't do full managed software. Doing this, as jsnetman says, will save you tens of thousands of pounds.

    Other companies that do similar are Phoenix Software, and Computacenter. All of these companies are a part of the Catalist framework (specifically as a part of the 'Commoditised IT Hardware and Software - Specialist Channel Partners for Software' part.

    I fear you are not going to get a cheap fully managed package from anywhere, as firstly the transition from CC3 to anything else will cost a fair amount as it will take many manhours of work, then there is the installation of the new system and configuration, and finally training on it. That is simply a very costly process, hence CC4 costing so much.
    More like it, thankyou.

  5. #20

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by shayes View Post
    More like it, thankyou.
    I was merely narrowing down exactly what you wanted. If it had been that you wanted a managed solution because you like the built in packager for example, I'd have suggested something else. But as you want an all encompassing solution, that is what I came up with.

  6. #21
    zag
    zag is offline
    zag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,829
    Thank Post
    918
    Thanked 422 Times in 355 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Rep Power
    88
    The reason most people say go for a Vanilla system is because that's what most of us have done over the last few years.

    In terms of a fully managed Educational frontend, then RM is pretty much your only option but I wouldn't wish the cost and restrictions on anyone.

    But any network manager should be able to build a new network in a few weeks. Its not as big a job as you would think.

  7. #22

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    18
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    What about peoples experiences with Burconix?

  8. #23

    Edu-IT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7,161
    Thank Post
    403
    Thanked 623 Times in 569 Posts
    Rep Power
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by jsnetman View Post
    I'm not trying to be off the cuff here but my idea of why schools have RM and other management software is that they don't have a an experienced NM who can manage/install a network. Ok maybe you lack the experience or don't want to commit to the time to install the network, but you will save 10's of thousands with a vanilla system and like I say you can employ a freelance to come set it up, provide initial training and support.
    Cost wise, you might save a few thousand by going vanilla on equipment and licensing, but you'll lose it when it comes to paying somebody to manage it. If you've got a vanilla network then in my opinion you need good working hours (8am - 5pm) with holiday hours too. With a managed system you don't need quite as much time as if there's a major issue you can walk away and leave somebody to dig away at it for you, that's what you're paying for in support fees and generally what you pay to have that to fall back on will be less than what you'd pay for somebody to work these extra hours. Swings and roundabouts!

  9. #24

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by Edu-IT View Post
    Cost wise, you might save a few thousand by going vanilla on equipment and licensing, but you'll lose it when it comes to paying somebody to manage it. If you've got a vanilla network then in my opinion you need good working hours (8am - 5pm) with holiday hours too. With a managed system you don't need quite as much time as if there's a major issue you can walk away and leave somebody to dig away at it for you, that's what you're paying for in support fees and generally what you pay to have that to fall back on will be less than what you'd pay for somebody to work these extra hours. Swings and roundabouts!
    Sorry but you can get exactly the same level of support from providers of 'vanilla' networks as you can managed suites such as cc3/4 etc... You don't suddenly lose all support options by going vanilla - instead, you get to craft exactly what support you want/need. Our school was installed as a vanilla network in 2003, and until I arrived in 2006 it was managed partly in-house, and partly via a support contract to a local IT firm who did all the major grunt work. The contract involved 48 hours of on-site tech time, and unlimited phone/email support for about £3k a year. It worked well for them too, but it wasn't needed once I took over. If it had been a managed system, the school would've been tied to either continuing support from the company or paying big money to switch to vanilla, ie. not as flexible.

  10. #25

    Edu-IT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7,161
    Thank Post
    403
    Thanked 623 Times in 569 Posts
    Rep Power
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sorry but you can get exactly the same level of support from providers of 'vanilla' networks as you can managed suites such as cc3/4 etc... You don't suddenly lose all support options by going vanilla - instead, you get to craft exactly what support you want/need. Our school was installed as a vanilla network in 2003, and until I arrived in 2006 it was managed partly in-house, and partly via a support contract to a local IT firm who did all the major grunt work. The contract involved 48 hours of on-site tech time, and unlimited phone/email support for about £3k a year. It worked well for them too, but it wasn't needed once I took over. If it had been a managed system, the school would've been tied to either continuing support from the company or paying big money to switch to vanilla, ie. not as flexible.
    Yes, I understand. Sorry I didn't word my post properly.

  11. #26
    maestromasada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    166
    Thank Post
    93
    Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
    Rep Power
    13
    We had a smilar desicion scenarion not long ago and decided to pay the premium and get CC4. The big cost of upgradign to CC4 are the licenses, but you also get for what you paid, peace of mind on my case and the fact that I dont' need to worry about for example in digging the GPOs of the DC to setup the members of a department who want to have the IE history kept for 10 days and not for 2, for example, with Type Manager is deadly easy.
    You can't dismiss that, by choosing a vanilla installation, you are putting all the burden on your shoulders of configuring the network, create software restriction policies and ensure the security of the workstations is sealed (only admin should be able to run exe, disable temp folder and such). All these can be achieved usign vanilla mode, but is much harder and surely more time consuming. RM in the long term pay off, specially is you are thinking on leaving your post in the future, or retaring: how are you guys documenting the vanilla network you have been supported by years?

  12. #27
    jsnetman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    887
    Thank Post
    23
    Thanked 134 Times in 126 Posts
    Rep Power
    40
    RM is a very good product in the right situation i.e the school does not have a NM or staff with sufficient experience to trouble shoot network problems. If a school does have an experienced NM/Senior Tech they are throwing money away with RM. If you are a school with a high priced and experienced NM and have RM what exactly is the NM doing, the NM is certainly not using there skills to the highest of their ability as RM are doing it all for them.

  13. #28

    synaesthesia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    6,069
    Thank Post
    592
    Thanked 1,039 Times in 797 Posts
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    469
    How about Ranger? Ok, it's still RM to a point but only by name. Pretty much just GUI over a vanilla system however it's easy enough for the average joe to manage without the expense of CC systems. You'll be free therefore to expand on your own terms things like AV protection, server specs and what not and not lose out on functionality of things like Tutor, package management, user and station GPO management etc.

  14. #29

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,942
    Thank Post
    1,199
    Thanked 1,069 Times in 760 Posts
    Rep Power
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by jsnetman View Post
    I'm not trying to be off the cuff here but my idea of why schools have RM and other management software is that they don't have a an experienced NM who can manage/install a network. Ok maybe you lack the experience or don't want to commit to the time to install the network, but you will save 10's of thousands with a vanilla system and like I say you can employ a freelance to come set it up, provide initial training and support.
    I have ran a CC3 network for 8 years and believe me it is not because i lack the necessary skills and don't have the qualifications it is the best solution for my school which allows development in other areas which gives us a very balanced and reliable network which the school has appreciated.
    It has taken our school from being one of the worst in the country at 19% A - Cs up to being one of the top 4% and this has been proven to be the network reliability and durability which has then given the students and staff the ability to communicate at all levels.
    Mix in some Linux and hey presto the perfect setup almost as we are moving to CC4 this summer (have been commissioning it ourselves) Phase 3 is underway of the proof of concept and we are really looking forward to it.
    It also wasn't that costly to move forward to CC4 as an early adopter so we have scored there as well so don't comment on things you really know very little about unless you have the proper facts to back it up.
    I know certain schools who have gone Vanilla and had 4 networks in the past 8 years which must have cost them a fortune as 2 were outsourced to different companies one of which went bust.
    RM I believe have had a very good input into school networks not with their hardware but the management software, agreed like CC3, CC4 has had teething problems just like Microsoft have had with releases of their software but all in all they have worked hard to progress issues and deal with them.

    @jsnetman: this is not in anyway shape or form written to antagonise but to remind people that there is always something for everyone and it may not be to everyones taste but you pays your money and you takes your chance as in everything in life.

  15. 4 Thanks to bossman:

    kmount (9th June 2010), simpsonj (9th June 2010), sparkeh (9th June 2010), webman (9th June 2010)

  16. #30

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    853
    Thank Post
    111
    Thanked 112 Times in 108 Posts
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by maestromasada View Post
    We had a smilar desicion scenarion not long ago and decided to pay the premium and get CC4. The big cost of upgradign to CC4 are the licenses, but you also get for what you paid, peace of mind on my case and the fact that I dont' need to worry about for example in digging the GPOs of the DC to setup the members of a department who want to have the IE history kept for 10 days and not for 2, for example, with Type Manager is deadly easy.
    You can't dismiss that, by choosing a vanilla installation, you are putting all the burden on your shoulders of configuring the network, create software restriction policies and ensure the security of the workstations is sealed (only admin should be able to run exe, disable temp folder and such). All these can be achieved usign vanilla mode, but is much harder and surely more time consuming. RM in the long term pay off, specially is you are thinking on leaving your post in the future, or retaring: how are you guys documenting the vanilla network you have been supported by years?
    I do document my network but its as vanilla as you can get if someone walked into my job they would work it out in a few days if they had any experience of a windows network ie GPO's with names like installOffice2007wSP2, installPrinterIT2, policyStudents servers with names like schoolname-dc-002, schoolname-pri-001, schoolname-web-001

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. From CC3 to......something else
    By jstuttard in forum Network and Classroom Management
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 7th August 2010, 03:07 PM
  2. LP+ and CC3
    By synaesthesia in forum East Midlands Broadband Consortium (EMBC)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 24th March 2010, 02:13 PM
  3. RE-IP a CC3
    By ndavies in forum Windows Server 2000/2003
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 6th April 2009, 09:07 AM
  4. CC3 Learning Resources on non-CC3 PC?
    By docboggle in forum Network and Classroom Management
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 7th July 2008, 11:16 AM
  5. RM CC3
    By mac_shinobi in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 5th July 2007, 08:23 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •