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Network and Classroom Management Thread, CC3 Windows SP3 released today in Technical; Originally Posted by mb2k01 I'm sure there will be some die-hard pro RM fans on here who will try and ...
  1. #16

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    I'm sure there will be some die-hard pro RM fans on here who will try and put some kind of positive spin on this. Looking forward to an entertaining read!
    What exactly would be negative about it though? Yeah, it's almost as late as the permanent transition to 64bit software for everyone else on the planet, but it needs doing.
    It will certainly be a must-do for people sticking with CC3 in the long term should they want to keep an up to date system (sic) - security update and feature-wise, at least.

    Won't say I'm a die-hard RM fan - but we have to work with what we've got sometimes. Just because there may be a better/different solution available doesn't mean we shouldn't hold back until the budget or will is in place to move forward.

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    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    What exactly would be negative about it though? Yeah, it's almost as late as the permanent transition to 64bit software for everyone else on the planet, but it needs doing.
    It will certainly be a must-do for people sticking with CC3 in the long term should they want to keep an up to date system (sic) - security update and feature-wise, at least.

    Won't say I'm a die-hard RM fan - but we have to work with what we've got sometimes. Just because there may be a better/different solution available doesn't mean we shouldn't hold back until the budget or will is in place to move forward.
    My post was badly worded sorry. The move to SP3 is positive in terms of what SP3 does - obviously having the opportunity to use it and be supported with it is good.
    What I meant, but didn't word properly, was that RM announcing their support/release for SP3 so long after Microsoft released it is poor, to say the least.

    Your last paragraph depends on your role I guess. If the role is managerial or another position which can drive change, then I would say that's entirely the wrong attitude to have!
    If you know there are better alternatives you should be striving to achieve them, not putting up with what you currently have.

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Well my role is supporting lots of different primary schools - schools which do not have their own on-site staff dedicated to IT. Support for what they have, consultant for what they want. I'd love to be able to suggest a vanilla network but without people on site to do the day to day stuff, it would be a little counter productive, hence why something as old as CC3 on modern hardware/networks can be a blessing for these sites.

    As to the delay - nail on the head. SP3 was out long before I even started supporting primary schools, and even though I'd already experimented with things like getting SP3 running on it, renaming CC3 stations etc I didn't want to start playing with it until it was official (that way, blame/bucks can be passed ). Didn't actually think to look on here, looks like people have been at it for ages Did wonder why the hell it took them so long to do something about it.

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    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Well my role is supporting lots of different primary schools - schools which do not have their own on-site staff dedicated to IT. Support for what they have, consultant for what they want. I'd love to be able to suggest a vanilla network but without people on site to do the day to day stuff, it would be a little counter productive, hence why something as old as CC3 on modern hardware/networks can be a blessing for these sites.

    As to the delay - nail on the head. SP3 was out long before I even started supporting primary schools, and even though I'd already experimented with things like getting SP3 running on it, renaming CC3 stations etc I didn't want to start playing with it until it was official (that way, blame/bucks can be passed ). Didn't actually think to look on here, looks like people have been at it for ages Did wonder why the hell it took them so long to do something about it.
    It's been a while since I've had an RM Network of my own, but I remember the days of getting something to work which "wasn't officially supported"! All very strange and adding to the reasons to change column!

    I've said it a few times on threads, I like a good ol' debate, but aren't too interested in doing hate-filled rants about any company, including RM.
    What I do wonder out of curiousity, is whether these schools still buy in to the support and warranty packages for their servers and stations! If they opted to drop those then they could probably secure your services on a longer term basis and allow you the flexibility you say you'd love!

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    With RM systems specifically it works out on a "no win" basis - as an example, a school decides to drop the support they get from my company and go to someone else - they soon find they also need to buy in to extra's as well, i.e. their own support contract with RM, and any costs they saved going to said 3rd party are often diminished straight away by doing so.

    I have wondered often how much a larger primary school may have to pay out to take on someone permanently to do it, taking into consideration licensing costs, training/upkeep of skills etc. That however, is a different topic entirely

    Besides, as you say : argument/debate causes and creates change - sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Without it we'd not move forward at all

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    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    The move to SP3 is positive in terms of what SP3 does
    Can someone tell me the difference/benefits of using a fully patched sp3 machine over a fully patched sp2 machine. As sp3 is mostly a big patch roll up, as far as I can see there is little difference, meaning that there is no problem as long as sp3 for CC3 was released before support for sp2 ends. Which it has been.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Can someone tell me the difference/benefits of using a fully patched sp3 machine over a fully patched sp2 machine. As sp3 is mostly a big patch roll up, as far as I can see there is little difference, meaning that there is no problem as long as sp3 for CC3 was released before support for sp2 ends. Which it has been.
    From Wikipedia:

    New features in Service Pack 3
    Turns black hole router detection on by default
    Network Access Protection client
    Group Policy support for IEEE 802.1X authentication for wired network adapters.
    Credentials Security Service Provider
    Descriptive Security options in Group Policy/Local Security Policy user interface
    An updated version of the Microsoft Enhanced Cryptographic Provider Module (RSAENH) that is FIPS 140-2 certified (SHA-256, SHA-384 and SHA-512 algorithms)
    Installing without requiring a product key during setup for retail and OEM versions

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    But does any of that new functionality do anything for CC3?

    Also as MS say

    This update also includes a small number of new functionalities, which do not significantly change customers’ experience with the operating system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Can someone tell me the difference/benefits of using a fully patched sp3 machine over a fully patched sp2 machine. As sp3 is mostly a big patch roll up, as far as I can see there is little difference, meaning that there is no problem as long as sp3 for CC3 was released before support for sp2 ends. Which it has been.
    The wiki above is a decent summary. This PDF from Microsoft also helps if you have the time to read it all! http://redirectingat.com/?id=951X490...Pack%25203.pdf

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    I not an RM fanboi, but I really can't see the big deal here.
    As someone with both CC3 and CC4 sites I am glad they pumped resources into getting CC4 working rather than CC3 XP SP3.

    To be honest I am more annoyed that they decided not to update the build area but provided a SP3 package to apply after building. CC4 is going to get new build images

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    I not an RM fanboi, but I really can't see the big deal here.
    As someone with both CC3 and CC4 sites I am glad they pumped resources into getting CC4 working rather than CC3 XP SP3.

    To be honest I am more annoyed that they decided not to update the build area but provided a SP3 package to apply after building. CC4 is going to get new build images


    lol it's a bit MS like, provide the updates but make it more and more painfull untill you finally give in sobbing and upgrade

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