Ranger mystery...or is it?

[snuggletech]

This 1 is a cracker!!

I have recently been made aware of an issue that started before christmas but has been getting progressivly worse and affecting more and more users. i've done some digging using the error message content and i've been sent everywhere and arrived nowhere!
When users (not the same users) from any group try to log on to random machines they get the following message:

Logon Denied. Group (say)"group1" is only allowed to logon to 1 workstation at a time and user is already logged at (say)"computer1". Nothing unuseral about that; it happens with forgetful kids, but the mystery is that "computer1" is the machine they are trying to log on to!!!
How can you already be logged in to a machine you've only just sat down at!!

I've asked around to try and find out when this started and no one seems to know (teachers being teachers i've only had two replies from about 10 heavy ICT room users), so i can't elliminate the fact that it might be the last ranger upgrade or even a windows server upgrade.

This is completely random; a student could have it one day on a particular machine, try the same one after lunch and not have it, maybe not have the problem for days but get it again in a totally different room!

I've looked at the clients event veiwers and the only error that flashes up as out of the ordinary before Rangers logged time for this problem is 1 for the w32time (event no. 35) but even that just says "synchronizing time with Server01" nothing about it failing though.

I'm kinda hoping that it's just ranger being it's usual pants self so i can push for a skip trip but i think it might be this w32time, am i on the right track?
oh and the ranger support site is well...i couldn't possibly say on a public forum.
Please help!!!

[greatone]

Have you looked into the Ranger Server Status logs to see what is happening with Ranger.

You should be able to filter to a machine that you know was affected to see in what order things are happening

[snuggletech]

If you mean the Ranger Reporter section of the server's event veiwer then it shows nothing. The last even was from the 19th and it reported that the Ranger Reporter Engine has started.

If you mean the status log on Lan Ranger; it doesn't flash up any violations before Logon Control reports the problem.

Quick example:

11:15:45 today a user had the problem and the 5 applications to run before are as follows:
11:15:39 userinit.exe closed
11:15:34 rgrshsub.exe closed
11:15:33 mdm.exe running
11:15:33 winlogon.exe running
11:15:33 lms.exe running.

If that's not what you mean please tell me how to find it.
Thanks.

[greatone]

I was referring to the status log on LAN Ranger.

Just thought that there might be something there to give you a clue as to what was happening

[57chevvy]

This 1 is a cracker!!

I have recently been made aware of an issue that started before christmas but has been getting progressivly worse and affecting more and more users. i've done some digging using the error message content and i've been sent everywhere and arrived nowhere!
When users (not the same users) from any group try to log on to random machines they get the following message:

Logon Denied. Group (say)"group1" is only allowed to logon to 1 workstation at a time and user is already logged at (say)"computer1". Nothing unuseral about that; it happens with forgetful kids, but the mystery is that "computer1" is the machine they are trying to log on to!!!
How can you already be logged in to a machine you've only just sat down at!!

I've asked around to try and find out when this started and no one seems to know (teachers being teachers i've only had two replies from about 10 heavy ICT room users), so i can't elliminate the fact that it might be the last ranger upgrade or even a windows server upgrade.

This is completely random; a student could have it one day on a particular machine, try the same one after lunch and not have it, maybe not have the problem for days but get it again in a totally different room!

I've looked at the clients event veiwers and the only error that flashes up as out of the ordinary before Rangers logged time for this problem is 1 for the w32time (event no. 35) but even that just says "synchronizing time with Server01" nothing about it failing though.

I'm kinda hoping that it's just ranger being it's usual pants self so i can push for a skip trip but i think it might be this w32time, am i on the right track?
oh and the ranger support site is well...i couldn't possibly say on a public forum.
Please help!!!

Hi
This is a current issue only with Ranger 7.0.0.4 but only for some users who use the "restrict user logons" to 1 feature for groups in Ranger. If set to 2 the issue does not occur.

I understand that Ranger development are looking at the issue now and a fix will be published shortly. FYI the BETA Ranger 7.0.0.5 happily does not appear to display the issue.

Rgds

[DAZZD88]

We get this problem too with 7.0.4. We just get the kids to leave the machine for a couple of minutes then logon again. Seems to be okay. TBH I personally have not liked Ranger since we got it and it's not our choice either, it's our line manager's.

[snuggletech]

Cheers for the insight guys. It doesn't suprise me or the guys i work with that it's a ranger problem. It's a useless piece of **** and this isn't the 1st time there has been massive floors in their software. The last full version flashed up driver errors randomly and according to them it was nothing to do with the software, few weeks later the released a statement saying it was and that the newest version solved the problem.
I've never liked it either, group policy can do more security wise and we are currently looking into other software to replace the environment and computer control aspects of it. Oh and don't even try using it with vista machines, they probably haven't even started writting stuff for win7!! Jokers.

I had another responce regarding a quick fix that i've tested and works; it's not ideal security wise but untill the fix arrives we've given the students 2 logins in the hope that they don't realise ha ha.

[57chevvy]

Cheers for the insight guys. It doesn't suprise me or the guys i work with that it's a ranger problem. It's a useless piece of **** and this isn't the 1st time there has been massive floors in their software. The last full version flashed up driver errors randomly and according to them it was nothing to do with the software, few weeks later the released a statement saying it was and that the newest version solved the problem.
I've never liked it either, group policy can do more security wise and we are currently looking into other software to replace the environment and computer control aspects of it. Oh and don't even try using it with vista machines, they probably haven't even started writting stuff for win7!! Jokers.

I had another responce regarding a quick fix that i've tested and works; it's not ideal security wise but untill the fix arrives we've given the students 2 logins in the hope that they don't realise ha ha.

Hi

I don't think it's actually a Ranger problem per se other than Ranger reflects the issue and the Ranger client software needs to give more time potentially to release the last login session as the Microsoft server OS seems to do this "when it is good and ready" (I am not a developer just an implementer). The problem only seems prevalent with Windows 2008 server (Vista technology here we go) and then only occasionally in my experience.

I haven't ever found a way to do this within a native Windows environment from NT 3.51 and up. Any posts I have seen on Microsoft forums in relation to this have remained unanswered.

It was a doddle on Novell Netware but since Microsoft blew them away its one of the niggles that people would like but hard to achieve.

Rgds

[snuggletech]

We're still using Server 2003 and XP clients, (didn't either bother with vista after a bench test) so i'm going to have to disagree in part.
Also a majority of our problems with this are at the start of the day so no previous session exists.
One thing we must all agree on though is that Ranger as security software is weak, often conflicting with group policy as well as 3rd party software that has no reported conflicts.
As an organisation their product development is slow and has more holes then a beta software from Microsoft!! Please don't get me started on their support; a majority of the time they will deny there is anything wrong at all, you can't even talk to the swines over the phone unless you pay through the nose!
My advice to anyone reading this, stay well clear. Look into monitoring software like securus and classroom control software like LanSchool (throws the control back to the teachers too rather then us), both rather good! Group policy can deal with the rest and more.

[57chevvy]

We're still using Server 2003 and XP clients, (didn't either bother with vista after a bench test) so i'm going to have to disagree in part.
Also a majority of our problems with this are at the start of the day so no previous session exists.
One thing we must all agree on though is that Ranger as security software is weak, often conflicting with group policy as well as 3rd party software that has no reported conflicts.
As an organisation their product development is slow and has more holes then a beta software from Microsoft!! Please don't get me started on their support; a majority of the time they will deny there is anything wrong at all, you can't even talk to the swines over the phone unless you pay through the nose!
My advice to anyone reading this, stay well clear. Look into monitoring software like securus and classroom control software like LanSchool (throws the control back to the teachers too rather then us), both rather good! Group policy can deal with the rest and more.

Hi

Sorry to stir your emotions so much I wasn't trying to start a contest about the value of Ranger just trying to put things in perspective based on experience.

If you are having conflicts with user apps, AD and Ranger these are usually just a configuration matter and easily remedied.

Ranger do offer a free to use forum for users to express themselves though and considering the amount of registered users on the Ranger forum (5000 registered accounts) and judging by their forum stats there are relatively few issues raised both here and on their forum that appear to remain unresolved for too long.

Securus and LanSchool are compliementary products aimed at different markets to Ranger for Networks the Ranger offerings here are Ranger Guardian and Ranger Remote control and should not be confused with Ranger for Networks surely.

I do however admit to being a supporter of Ranger for my sins as my experience overall has been positive.

Rgds

[busby]

sorry my experience with ranger classlink and the like, are not very nice i'd recomend hitting them with a large hammer and just sticking with what the Microsoft server offers.

[snuggletech]

Looks like we've started quite a debate here...oops
Like you said though it does all come down to experience, for a long time we didn't have that many issues with Ranger, it chugged along quite nicely. It just seems there last few full versions have caused nothing but grief for a large number of users.
You're probably right about poor configuration but sadly that's something i've inherited and currently unable to change (don't ask) luckily we're moving to a new school with brand new network etc and hopefuly Ranger won't be a part of that. It won't be if i have my way and if i had my way and the cash/time/permission i'd take Ranger off tomorrow.
Fully agree with busby but also glad that you don't have many issues with it. You're a very lucky man

[57chevvy]

Looks like we've started quite a debate here...oops
Like you said though it does all come down to experience, for a long time we didn't have that many issues with Ranger, it chugged along quite nicely. It just seems there last few full versions have caused nothing but grief for a large number of users.
You're probably right about poor configuration but sadly that's something i've inherited and currently unable to change (don't ask) luckily we're moving to a new school with brand new network etc and hopefuly Ranger won't be a part of that. It won't be if i have my way and if i had my way and the cash/time/permission i'd take Ranger off tomorrow.
Fully agree with busby but also glad that you don't have many issues with it. You're a very lucky man

Hi

Yes maybe so. I guess we have expressed our views for the consideration of others which is the point of the forum after all.

Rgds

[user_2010]

I've worked with the ranger products for the last 3 years. On the whole it's been very reliable - more so than other products. You won't find a single product that does everything Ranger for Networks does.

Microsoft rarely admit they've made a mistake and usually just issue a patch to fix it so why do you expect anyone else to. There are many companies out there that are not up to supporting Windows 7 let alone Ranger so why point solely at them. Have you never had a driver issue that Microsoft can't support?

I've never had any problem getting support and cetainly don't 'pay thru the nose' for it. They've always assisted in what ever way they could.

As a tool ranger is very good but lets not forget it is one tool. For schools that can't afford the services of MCSE trained individuals it is invaluable.

A good network is monitored and secured by several products not just one.
You will get conflicts when you use any security product as well as GPO's and as mentioned it requires configuration and patience.

Just my 10c worth.

By the way I am a MCSE.

[Rick2134]

Hi
This is a current issue only with Ranger 7.0.0.4 but only for some users who use the "restrict user logons" to 1 feature for groups in Ranger. If set to 2 the issue does not occur.

I understand that Ranger development are looking at the issue now and a fix will be published shortly. FYI the BETA Ranger 7.0.0.5 happily does not appear to display the issue.

Rgds

This is also a problem in 7.0.0.2