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Network and Classroom Management Thread, From CC3 to......something else in Technical; Originally Posted by jstuttard I was thinking managed wireless, I once had a leaflet from DLink about a Power-over-Ethernet solution ...
  1. #16

    Edu-IT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstuttard View Post
    I was thinking managed wireless, I once had a leaflet from DLink about a Power-over-Ethernet solution which looked pretty clever, I was planning on taking a look at BETT to see what might be on offer
    Make sure you look at Ruckus.

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    CC4 DOES add alot of overhead, but it does come with some nice features, like background installs.

    In my opinion, CC4 isn't worth having; it doesn't provide anything i cant do with vanilla and OSS within 2 weeks. And i could probably remove the CC4 overhead easily this way. There is one limiting factor at the mo for CC4 - no win7 support. But it will be added we are told.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs_mjs View Post
    In my opinion, CC4 isn't worth having; it doesn't provide anything i cant do with vanilla and OSS within 2 weeks.
    Hi,

    We're still running CC3 and are wondering about going vanilla rather than CC4 (mainly due to cost and remaining issues with CC4). The problems with vanilla that we can see are how to achieve application deyployment and station rebuild anywhere near as easily as CC3/CC4 can do. Looking at some of the threads here, the suggested solutions for these two sounds like they would increase my workload enormously.

    I'm happy for someone to say that I've missed something obvious though!

    Richard

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    Edu-IT's Avatar
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    (mainly due to cost and remaining issues with CC4).
    To be fair CC4 seems pretty stable now, in our environment at least. Yes there are one or two niggles but nothing that can't be worked around in one way or another.

    How many computers do you manage? Servers? What other jobs get put on your plate, or are you purely network management?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meldrew View Post
    The problems with vanilla that we can see are how to achieve application deyployment and station rebuild anywhere near as easily as CC3/CC4 can do.
    SpecOps Deploy 4.0 is about to come out, that provides application deployment as well as leveraging WDS and WDT2010 to give operating system deployment.

    I've also been recommened Symantec Altiris products by someone and that gives the option of OS X image deployment too.

    Depending on the software you want on each workstation you could also use FOG and standard GPO based software deployment, either with a thin syspreped base image that joins the domain, then GPO/MSI deployments on top for all of the applications.. or.. a fat syspreped base image (already has the applications installed) that joins the domain and just finishes off the install by adding things like smartboard drivers and antivirus using GPO/MSI.

    As far as I know all of these approaches would be a one click instruction, the workstation reboots to boot from the network, and that's it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edu-IT View Post
    To be fair CC4 seems pretty stable now, in our environment at least. Yes there are one or two niggles but nothing that can't be worked around in one way or another.

    How many computers do you manage? Servers? What other jobs get put on your plate, or are you purely network management?
    We support a dozen or so primary schools, a few of which have CC4 and all of those have various problems (and long running customer complaints about them), despite SR1, so our experience of CC4 makes us of the opinion that it's not something we'd like to install if we had the option of installing it tomorrow for example.

    Regarding us as a College, we have approx 700 PCs, 4 DCs, 1500 students. We have to deal with phones, CCTV, website, pretty much anything that can be vaguely attributed to having something IT related ends up in our in tray, so the thought of going vanilla without some sort of automated station rebuild and software deployment system that doesn't take large amounts of time fills me with dread!

    Richard

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    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meldrew View Post
    The problems with vanilla that we can see are how to achieve application deyployment and station rebuild anywhere near as easily as CC3/CC4 can do
    I think that is the first time I've read a sentance with "easily" "application deployment" and "CCx" in it!
    I would partly agree on the speed / ease of station rebuilds though.... but you can still enjoy those kind of results using 3rd party titles on a vanilla network.

    The problem with both RM app and OS deployment as far as I'm concerned is that you have no actual choice over either process - you get what RM give you in their standard product and are forced to live with the limitations / niggles, and also the price. Sure, you technically have the option to get something else, but if you do aren't you moving closer to a vanilla set up for which you could have saved a lot of money in the first place?!

    If you want more information on Altiris (or to see it, as I notice you're in the same County!) feel free to drop me a PM. I'd also recommend having a look at the other native Symantec products - Backup Exec System Restore has caught my eye recently.

    The key summing up point i'd make - RM is "good", but don't be happy with what you've got until you've researched what you could have.... for less money / richer reward.

  8. #23

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    I think that is the first time I've read a sentance with "easily" "application deployment" and "CCx" in it!
    What do you seemingly find "not easy" with CC3/4 application deployment? You have the package, choose which locations or workstations you want it installed on, and you click OK - easy enough for us. A package can be a properly-packaged MSI or a silently-installable EXE.

    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    The problem with both RM app and OS deployment as far as I'm concerned is that you have no actual choice over either process - you get what RM give you in their standard product and are forced to live with the limitations / niggles, and also the price.
    From our experience, there is very little wrong with app and OS deployment methods in CC3. If it didn't work so well, we wouldn't be able to unattendedly rebuild machines a) from USB sticks or b) remotely via the management console; or have over 400 functioning apps across the network.

    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    The key summing up point i'd make - RM is "good", but don't be happy with what you've got until you've researched what you could have.... for less money / richer reward.
    Equally, don't be disappointed with it solely based on some people having an aversion to RM or a personal vendetta against them
    Last edited by webman; 13th January 2010 at 07:00 PM.

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    I support a number of schools and have today had a primary school say that they want to change their network from CC3 to "something else" too.

    Their CC3 network is working perfectly at the moment but the new head teacher wants all their computers to look like a home computer, not with RM Explorer making it look simplified or dumbed down. She does have a bee in her bonnet with RM that was put there by the company that installed a vanilla network in her previous school. The current schools problem is that they only have support for half a day every 2 weeks, so it's not like they'll have much time for us to create computer images/builds, software packages for redeployment and keep up with their day to day technical problems. Whereas on their current network all these things run a breeze and we can kick off a quick rebuild and leave it to complete without having to baby sit it. On a vanilla network all these things take a lot longer to work through no matter what alternative applications you buy in to.

    I have tried Ranger and Viglen and find them both a waste of time and money but am struggling to find a solution that is as simple to maintain for the school or myself in the time they have, compared to their current network other than a straight upgrade CC4 but that will not satisfy the RM hate she now harbors.

    What to do???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexi View Post
    What to do???
    Just point out all of the pitfalls of moving away from CC3, and the extra costs and time needed to maintain another network. Then highlight that if they were to move away, they wouldn't get X-good-feature-of-CC3 etc..

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    At the end of the day, is it not about what works for the school and not what works best for your head teacher? Seems she's missing that point based on your post.


    Their CC3 network is working perfectly at the moment but the new head teacher wants all their computers to look like a home computer, not with RM Explorer making it look simplified or dumbed down.
    You can turn that off in CC4 and have a regular Windows XP/Windows Vista and soon to be Windows 7 theme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Just point out all of the pitfalls of moving away from CC3, and the extra costs and time needed to maintain another network. Then highlight that if they were to move away, they wouldn't get X-good-feature-of-CC3 etc..
    Trust me, I've been trying to do that and save them time and money for a solution that won't be as suited to them but the heels are digging in. It's a case of asking my opinion, then because it wasn't her opinion it gets dismissed as incorrect. I'm therefore trying to find a trustworthy solution.

    I haven't tried CSE's software as mentioned earlier but might have to investigate that further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edu-IT View Post
    At the end of the day, is it not about what works for the school and not what works best for your head teacher? Seems she's missing that point based on your post.



    You can turn that off in CC4 and have a regular Windows XP/Windows Vista and soon to be Windows 7 theme.
    I agree with you on that.

    Haven't seen the option in CC4 to change to a regular xp theme yet, but will now check it out on the RM site to confirm that for her.

  14. #29

    webman's Avatar
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    How childish for someone to give me negative rep in this thread with the comment "Aw bless. Bossman's little lapdog strikes again!". Grow up

    Was it you mb2k01?

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    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot Webman! No it wasn't!

    I've never given anyone negative rep on here (and probably never will!), and when giving positive always put mb2k01 on the end so they know it's me!
    Out of curiosity, who is meant to be your "lapdog"?
    Last edited by mb2k01; 13th January 2010 at 09:01 PM.

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