+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 138
Network and Classroom Management Thread, To RM or not to RM, that is the question... in Technical; Why not go outside the LEA? there are many companies out there who will install a fully secured Vanilla network ...
  1. #61
    Jamman960's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London/Kent
    Posts
    987
    Thank Post
    186
    Thanked 194 Times in 156 Posts
    Rep Power
    45
    Why not go outside the LEA? there are many companies out there who will install a fully secured Vanilla network from the beginning and will provide whatever level of support you require or can afford.

  2. #62

    garethedmondson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Gowerton, Swansea
    Posts
    2,260
    Thank Post
    965
    Thanked 324 Times in 192 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    164
    Quote Originally Posted by magicpatch View Post
    After a long time to think about it, we've taken the decision to leave RM behind and go for the standard setup from our LEA. Although its far from perfect, its a lot less resource hungry than RM and I'm still tweaking the other LEA setup a year after it was setup, so although it will take longer to get right we can eventually tweak it to our requirements via GPOs rather than being forced what RM think is right for us.
    Leaving RM was one of the best things we did. Yes we have had to learn things and research things that RM did for us (such as RIS and WSUS) - but it has been worth it and has brought a new lease of life to some of our older machines which used to suffer under the strain of CC3.

    Good luck with your system.

    As it happens the largest comp in our LEA has just decided to leave RM and go back into the bosom of the LEA.

    Regards

    Gareth

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    10
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    I work for Redcar & Cleveland Local Authority and we support 50 primary schools. There all RM CC3 well I say all, some are now CC4.
    Im not gonna go into it too much but CC4 has been such a disaster were now starting to remove the other CC3 servers and replace with Vanilla networks.
    Not only is CC4 not very good but it is very very expensive, and over kill for Primary Schools.
    If I was a school upgrading to CC4 I would get a contract with RM drawn up to say if your not happy then you can have a full refund.

    Service Release 1 for CC4 has made it alot more reliable but im afraid it still is very unstable

  4. #64
    magicpatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    9
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamman960 View Post
    Why not go outside the LEA? there are many companies out there who will install a fully secured Vanilla network from the beginning and will provide whatever level of support you require or can afford.
    They are pretty cheap to be honest, and the support is local, we get the same technician from the LEA etc. The decision was with the head, she obviously feels more 'secure' by the friendly faces, but at the end of the day is is just a Vanilla network, they do some GPO work on installation and they will also connect all our current machines onto the new network as part of the install (where-as RM would charge £40 a machine!) and we have 90 odd workstations & laptops.

    I've been using the LEA setup on another site for a year, yes it has its moments but a year in I've not had too many complaints from staff, well apart from slow logins but thats because they've dumped GB's of data on their desktop so its sitting on their profiles!

  5. #65
    Butuz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    1,579
    Thank Post
    211
    Thanked 220 Times in 176 Posts
    Rep Power
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by magicpatch View Post
    I've been using the LEA setup on another site for a year, yes it has its moments but a year in I've not had too many complaints from staff, well apart from slow logins but thats because they've dumped GB's of data on their desktop so its sitting on their profiles!
    This is the problem though is it not? On CC£ that would not happen as neither staff nor pupils can save to the desktop because teh GPO's are very wel set up. This is the problem with vanilla - it takes a lot of work and many days of GPO tweaking and testing to get near what you get on CC£ out of the box.

    Most LEA vanilla networks I have seen are no where near as well set up, secure, easy to manage and user friendly as RM CC£. This is why so many schools are with RM, including mine, and half of the secondaries in my LEA.

    Butuz

  6. #66

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    2,168
    Thank Post
    98
    Thanked 319 Times in 261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    This is the problem though is it not? On CC£ that would not happen as neither staff nor pupils can save to the desktop because teh GPO's are very wel set up. This is the problem with vanilla - it takes a lot of work and many days of GPO tweaking and testing to get near what you get on CC£ out of the box.

    Most LEA vanilla networks I have seen are no where near as well set up, secure, easy to manage and user friendly as RM CC£. This is why so many schools are with RM, including mine, and half of the secondaries in my LEA.

    Butuz
    That isn't a problem with vanilla networks per se, but the setup. There are vanilla networks which are highly secure, very nicely set up, incredibly easy to manage (since they've been designed properly and the AD structure has been planned and designed to suit purpose, along with the GPOs), and user-friendliness is a matter of opinion. Personally I find the restrictions that CC3 used to place on me as a network manager to be crippling.

    It does take work to get a vanilla network set up properly, and a lot of technical knowledge, but once that work's been done and everything's in place it'll beat any one-size-fits-all solution.

  7. #67
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    I like it, but that's mainly as it makes my job easy. If you have the expertise of a vanilla network and you're willing to spend the time keeping it running sharp, you'll benefit from greater performance and freedom. If, however time is of the essence CC4 may well be worth a shot - but only if you're waiting a bit. RM have been rolling out the SR1 release this month and as from a few days ago it's been sent out to existing users. I'd give it a couple of months to gauge how those installations go. I'm one of the rare folks on here that actually *likes* CC4. It makes life very easy, it's far more intuitive than CC3 and gives you more easily accessible options than a vanilla network, unless of course you can put the work into it. It does have it's problems currently, many of which SR1 is supposed to fix.
    Problem is you are damaging your skill set and doing your career harm as you are only able to run a RM site..

    Whare as Vanilla you can move to industry with ease

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamman960 View Post
    Why not go outside the LEA? there are many companies out there who will install a fully secured Vanilla network from the beginning and will provide whatever level of support you require or can afford.
    which will be far far far cheaper with a full support package than RM CC4
    Last edited by Grommit; 25th June 2009 at 11:58 AM.

  8. #68
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25
    .......................

  9. #69

    sparkeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    6,738
    Thank Post
    1,272
    Thanked 1,645 Times in 1,101 Posts
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Problem is you are damaging your skill set and doing your career harm as you are only able to run a RM site..

    Whare as Vanilla you can move to industry with ease
    Yes because the most important consideration about the choice of network setup is your ongoing career

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    2,168
    Thank Post
    98
    Thanked 319 Times in 261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Yes because the most important consideration about the choice of network setup is your ongoing career
    To a degree, yes, in that a vanilla network is something which can be customised to any school, college, university or business as needed with the same skillset. So when/if you move on, someone else can come in and find a vanilla network, and should be able to maintain in. There's a much broader base of people who can support a vanilla setup than there are for any of the proprietary management systems, whichever you choose.

    Personally I'd say the big difference comes down to maintenance hours. If you've got full-time tech staff who can support a vanilla network, vanilla'd be better as a rule. If you've got part-time tech staff, or if you've got multi-role staff (IT Teacher/Network Manager combined for example) then the time saving might be worthwhile.

    Maybe a better way to describe it would be responsibility. If you've got technical staff who can take full responsibility for the network, then vanilla's most likely your best option. If you want someone else taking responsibility, go with managed.

  11. #71

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,905
    Thank Post
    1,186
    Thanked 1,057 Times in 749 Posts
    Rep Power
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    Personally I find the restrictions that CC3 used to place on me as a network manager to be crippling.
    Why would this be? as someone who loves Microsoft vanilla system you would understand that CC3 utilises this as another layer on top of AD. Nothing hard about it except like Microsoft Vanilla it does take hard work and time to get used to the format but it does not stop you from using the underlying Vanilla system does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    It does take work to get a vanilla network set up properly, and a lot of technical knowledge, but once that work's been done and everything's in place it'll beat any one-size-fits-all solution.
    As I have said before this "Mine is bigger and better than yours" syndrome is just immature nonsense, it is what suits the needs of the school and what way it is best managed using best practice for both deployment and cost purposes. Having seen lots of posts over the years on this forum I still think the largest proportion of questions are about "Vanilla Systems" (Maybe as more people are using vanilla systems) and some people seem to have got it sorted and some have not it's just the same with "RM CC3" some people have got it sorted and some people are still learning.

    Let's be professional about this.

  12. #72

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    2,168
    Thank Post
    98
    Thanked 319 Times in 261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    Why would this be? as someone who loves Microsoft vanilla system you would understand that CC3 utilises this as another layer on top of AD. Nothing hard about it except like Microsoft Vanilla it does take hard work and time to get used to the format but it does not stop you from using the underlying Vanilla system does it?
    Yes, it does. GPOs applied on a CC3 system could cause all sorts of fun and games. Deploying software through GPOs often just wouldn't work, simple as that. Changing the AD structure into a sensible, logical one could break CC3. All sorts of little niggles and touches which basically mean the only way to safely manage the network was to use the tools provided - which don't provide the full functionality you'd get using purely AD.

    And of course, renaming a computer is always fun. Have they sorted that in CC4?

    As I have said before this "Mine is bigger and better than yours" syndrome is just immature nonsense, it is what suits the needs of the school and what way it is best managed using best practice for both deployment and cost purposes. Having seen lots of posts over the years on this forum I still think the largest proportion of questions are about "Vanilla Systems" (Maybe as more people are using vanilla systems) and some people seem to have got it sorted and some have not it's just the same with "RM CC3" some people have got it sorted and some people are still learning.
    Its not a mine is bigger and better than yours attitude. Any network management software is designed to do one thing, make managing the network easier. If it weren't designed for that then it wouldn't be much use. The drawback is that as part of making it easier to manage you do lose some of the more advanced features and customisations which are available.

    Its like the difference between driving an automatic and a manual. Each have their fans, and their place, but you'll never find a performance-obsessed racer who loves customising their car driving an automatic.

    Of course, you'll be much less likely to find a little automatic town car wrapped around a tree as well, which I think just strengthens the analogy.

    Let's be professional about this.
    I'm not trying to be insulting or unprofessional at all about CC3, and I do believe that it does have its place, but suggesting that it (or any managed network) is as advanced and powerful as a properly configured network without a 3rd party management layer just isn't something I'm happy to do.

  13. #73
    ajsidike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    15
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Help is at hand

    <Edited for spam>

    Don't do it or we shall ban you next. Note that only forum sponsors can use the forums in a commercial capacity. Please also note that banning will block access to the forums from your companies IP address.
    Some senior company execs get quite excitable when they find out this has happened.

    Dos_Box

  14. #74

    Little-Miss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    5,522
    Thank Post
    2,374
    Thanked 745 Times in 456 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    542
    Ah yes, i've heard about you....

    The forum gods will frown on your little plug....

  15. #75

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    51
    Thank Post
    11
    Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    Vendor viewpoint;

    Any organisation with RM CC3, CC4 should be aware that they cannot take advantage of Multiseat computing software to reduce desktop costs and energy bills. (SoftXpand, BeTwin, NComputing)

    I don't think this will change. Ever. So although I think it's a good business model to lock in customers and keep them close to you, the EduGeeks should be able to add other vendors products if they so choose or at least get support from RM to fix the compatability issues; especially given the price over the long run, but I guess that's a blog topic really.

    VARs our side are reporting that Staffs, Shrops, Worcs are the hot beds for RM uptake, and most end users are NOT going from CC3 to CC4. That kind of tells a story.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Question I should ask them?
    By mikeyewz in forum Educational IT Jobs
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 21st May 2009, 04:03 PM
  2. AD Question
    By Marc in forum Windows
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20th March 2009, 12:17 PM
  3. A different question
    By wesleyw in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 15th October 2008, 03:52 PM
  4. Question
    By Elky in forum Recommended Suppliers
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 7th November 2006, 01:02 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •