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Network and Classroom Management Thread, Moving from CC3 to something else? in Technical; Hi All, I recently moved schools from a Ranger running on Server 2003 to a CC3 network. I moved as ...
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    reggiep's Avatar
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    Moving from CC3 to something else?

    Hi All,
    I recently moved schools from a Ranger running on Server 2003 to a CC3 network.
    I moved as the post was a shorter journey to work, I did not move to be running a CC3 network with a separate admin network!
    I have been told that funds will be in place next year to upgrade the system to CC4 BUT that is not the route I want to take. I would ideally like to combine both networks and get back to a Server 2003/2008 setup with Ranger on top.


    My last school transferred from Novell to Ranger BUT we got a third party in to install the system.
    Now I can manage a Server2003 network BUT I might struggle with the initial setup, such as GPOs that might need to be set up at the beginning.

    Can anyone let me know of any pitfalls that I might face and how hard it would be to combine both networks?

    Thanks

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    Butuz's Avatar
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    Out of interest what do you not like about CC3?

    Butuz

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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    It all depends on your skill level and what support you might have really. You will need good knowledge of Active Directory, ideally VB script for login scripts, knowledge of creating MSI packages, creating and managing users in bulk and migrating their data and..... (you see where i'm going)

    We moved from RM 2.4 to a vanilla 2003/2K/XP network about three years ago and joined our networks at the same time. We got rid of the old admin server at this point and migrated all of the data to the 'curriculum' netowork (which of course just became the network) we then upgraded any 9x clients to 2K or above and joined them to the network. The important pare here is to seperate admin data into seperate folder structures with completly different share permissions so students cannot gain access to it (a good well managed share/permissions setup should be as good as seperate hardware really) you can also hide the shares to provide an extra stumbling block. Other than that 'joining' the networks was pretty straight forward.

    The move from RM was a bit more of a pain as you need to create new packages and review what RM applications you will have to make do without. Then there is the creating of all of the new users and migrating all of your data, if you're going with Ranger they provide tools to assist with this but i would recommnd trying to go native as it's quite a £££ saving.
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 28th April 2008 at 01:58 PM.

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    reggiep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    Out of interest what do you not like about CC3?

    Butuz
    Er, I'm not sure I have enough RAM installed on my machine to type all my reasons but the main reason has to be cost. £90 per machine for a license is ridiculous. I pay just over a third of that for a windows license.
    Having used ranger and CC3 in the past I rate Ranger much more highly.

    That will do for now

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    torledo's Avatar
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    i would echo what cookie said, and while i think it's important to know something like vbscript and use it's power within a windows server environment to make you're life easier....it's better to walk before you can run. Starting off working with batch files if you haven't already got the experience is a good first step as you can get by most of the time with batch when creating login scripts.

    That gives you time to get up to speed with vbs to do some more advanced automation.

    The reason i say that is that MSI creation, AD experience won't have the same learning curve as vbscript. Particularly if you've not done much procedural programming.

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    bossman's Avatar
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    @reggeip you may think £90 per workstation is a rip off but if you buy them in batches of 50 it is greatly reduced to £72 per station.If you then consider what you get for your money with all the management tools that come with that license then you would not think it so expensive.
    If you had to purchase all the tools from third parties it would defo cost you an arm and a leg. I don't think by getting rid and converting to another platform would help you price wise as you would be starting from scratch again which would take considerable time which in your case would be costly.
    I have often thought of moving away from RMCC3 but when I factor in the variables I come to the same conclusion, it has done what I want it to for 5 years no major problems and it is paid for so I use it.
    Having looked at CC4 it has lots of new features which will advance our network to the next level and will not cost us a fortune as they are only upgrade licenses at £45 each which will not break the bank and we will get a whole host of new tools for the teachers to use which will benefit me an webman in the fact we will be able to delegate a lot of tasks back to the teachers.
    Everyone to their own but we have administered the CC3 in a very similar way to a vanilla system at times using GPOs and the AD and it just works.
    Obviously if you mess without knowing the impact it will have on your network then that's your own fault and no one else's and this I feel could be attributed to other CC3 installations.

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    jmcdermott's Avatar
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    I originally moved from a lot of classlink 2000 networks to one single school running a cc3 network which i found to restricting for my experience, so i think after about a year of running with cc3, i had the pleasure of formatting the server and building a server 2003 domain with xp clients. To me this one of this best moves i have ever made but as stated in other posts if i did not have a good understanding of active directory and vb script i do not think i would have been able to set the whole thing up with out paying someone to come in and do it for me, which would probably cost a lot more than £90 per license.

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    Yep as stated above it depends on your technical experience an knowledge. Setting up a network properly is not a straight forward task and if you aren't sure what you're doing you really will need to get outside help. The going rate for a company will be approx £600 per day so you could rack you a week full of work for them to come in and install your new servers, create your Active Directory, users and some knowledge transfer and then you're on your own again unless you pay them for ongoing support.

    However you might get them in for a few days as insurance and find you're quite comfortable to carry on with the day to day maintenance and not take out extra support.
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 28th April 2008 at 04:10 PM.

  9. #9
    kerrymoralee9280
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    Hey reggiep - We moved from CC3 to Vanilla last year and I still have the scripts (cacls etc to create users and such) and all the GPO backups from how we set it up at first.

    I know these won't be perfected for your site but should save you some work - let me know if you want them.

  10. Thanks to kerrymoralee9280 from:

    reggiep (28th April 2008)

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    reggiep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerrymoralee9280 View Post
    Hey reggiep - We moved from CC3 to Vanilla last year and I still have the scripts (cacls etc to create users and such) and all the GPO backups from how we set it up at first.

    I know these won't be perfected for your site but should save you some work - let me know if you want them.
    If I could look at them that would be great.

    I do understand most aspects of a non RM CC3 network as I man aged one for 4 years until 3 weeks ago!
    But as for setting one up from scratch i wouldn't like to bet my house on being able to set one up without a few hiccups.
    I am a complete dunce when it comes to VB script but I did set up a kixscript for the likes of printer networking and drive mapping BUT I did wonder how other people have done it.

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    good move, we are in the process of chucking this overpriced spyware out.

    We are in a very advanced stage, we have moved 70% of desktops and laptops onto vanilla clients. In order to do this just create a OU outside of the cc3 establishent bit in AD.

    Block inheritence on the newly created OU, this will stop most of the cc3 gpos from applying.

    Create machine gpos for the desktops computers
    create user gpos by using loopback processing

    Use WDS to deploy your desktop images.

    There are several different ways to export/move users after that use ntfsfix to reset permissions on user areas.

    The hardest thing you will have to do is get every department to give you a detailed list of all software that they need and it which room.
    The technical side is easy but the communication of getting all information from different departments is hard.

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    reggiep's Avatar
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    @Jose

    Thanks for feeling the same way as me!
    I would ideally like to unwrap a sparkly new hp server and install a new server 2003/2008 and styart right from the beginning.

    I guess I could play with a workstation with it on first and create my own practice domain!

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    russdev's Avatar
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    Bad choice (sorry jose couldn't help myself)

    Just because you can manager a non cc3 network doesn't mean you should. It all depends on various factors such as your time, what happens in get hit by the red bus, cost moving away vrs cost of new network (remember in my view it takes at least 8 weeks to move to have a new network working with out issues.

    RM networks will always cause arguments on forums like this so down to choice (by that I mean not just us as needs to be best for whole school). I know i couldn't do my job with out rm network but I do lot more than manage the network and with just me cc3 provides stable platform to work upon.

    Anyway that is my view jose and other people have there view and me and other people have a view.

    Russell

  15. Thanks to russdev from:

    bossman (29th April 2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggiep View Post
    @Jose

    Thanks for feeling the same way as me!
    I would ideally like to unwrap a sparkly new hp server and install a new server 2003/2008 and styart right from the beginning.

    I guess I could play with a workstation with it on first and create my own practice domain!
    in the summer if you do remove cc3, its always best to start from scratch because the rm cc3 stuff screws around with the active directory.
    But in the mean time moving the desktops over to a vanilla build would make your life easier later.

    We are at the stage now where all we have to do is format the C: drives of the domain controllers and reinstall 2003 server.
    We would then sysprep all desktops to join the new domain.
    Theres always different ways of doing it depending on demands on your time.

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    Quackers's Avatar
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    Itís a lot easier than you think, just start now. Have the two systems running side by side, and slowly get it right before going live with it. There is loads of information and help out there, like here. Then think what you can do with the thousands of pounds you have saved not buying RM Connect licenses, so of benefit to the school, and also to you as it will make your skills so much more.

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