+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30
Network and Classroom Management Thread, staff discipline in Technical; Hi, This is sort of my first post here so hi all! What do you guys/gals thinks of this, I ...
  1. #1
    Unvalidated User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    the Pub
    Posts
    255
    Thank Post
    7
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    staff discipline

    Hi,

    This is sort of my first post here so hi all!

    What do you guys/gals thinks of this,

    I have totally got rid of all win98 boxes while i built the school a nice network (around 300 pcs). I got rid of them for obvious reasons, I was replacing them with a new modern OS (2000 or XPP) and suitable machine to go with it. Basically building a domain and the non technical people here decided to flood the school with a load of cheap unetworked 98 machines, but it sort of helped staff somewhat in between (although it went against my judgment). Now a few years on they are networked in every room but still have a difficult members of staff. I have win98 machines been setup (all by them) in a room on its own with no network connectivity (made sure the sockets were off becoz of all the fiddling going, just check my dhcp logs ), no PAT testing, no antivirus management.
    My reasons for no 98 is simple, I do not want to build a new network and add them to the domain, they dont do GPolicy, directory traversal etc. they are easy to install pirate s/w on (and they have), and obviously with no antivirus kids will stick their usb stick in and sooner or later start getting work lost from what builds up in the private suite. They are also opening machines in their department to play around. Head wont do anything ive tried. Any ideas? Leave it and cover myself?

    Thanks.

  2. #2

    FN-GM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    15,957
    Thank Post
    886
    Thanked 1,700 Times in 1,477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Rep Power
    448
    I don't balme you one bit mate.

    Just don't support them simple as that. You could go an tamper with a few and break them and force them to get rid.

  3. #3

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,684
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,453 Times in 1,899 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    833
    Write a letter to the head stating your concerns, point out the relevant laws - regarding the data protection act, health and safety law etc... and point out that if anything negative were to occur due to these machines being in school (electrical shock due to them being non-PAT tested, data being lost due to intrusions, a virus spreading due to poor security etc...), it would be him who gets the blame and not you.

  4. #4

    elsiegee40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    11,076
    Thank Post
    1,792
    Thanked 2,188 Times in 1,619 Posts
    Rep Power
    774
    Old machines like this have sudden hardware failures at the drop of a hat (or possibly a screw driver, or a hard-drive...)... just don't get caught

  5. #5
    Diello's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Kent, England
    Posts
    1,064
    Thank Post
    112
    Thanked 228 Times in 128 Posts
    Rep Power
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Write a letter to the head stating your concerns, point out the relevant laws - regarding the data protection act, health and safety law etc... and point out that if anything negative were to occur due to these machines being in school (electrical shock due to them being non-PAT tested, data being lost due to intrusions, a virus spreading due to poor security etc...), it would be him who gets the blame and not you.
    Ditto - also CC it to your Chair of Governors as well. Pay particular attention to students loosing GCSE/AL coursework, and the response parents would have to that if their child failed a subject because of that, that the situation being allowed to occur presents a clear threat to the ability of the school to provide satisfactory ICT resources for Teaching & Learning.

    Definitely refuse to support them in ANY way, including when they "accidentally" break

  6. #6

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,172
    Thank Post
    868
    Thanked 2,699 Times in 2,288 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    772
    If that room is on a separate power breaker it could be subjected to numerous isolated power failures. That is sure to increase the mortality rate for those old PCs

    You could also include in your official letter the kind of fines that the school would incur if those machines had illegal software on them (and they pretty much have to). This might help them grasp the monetary logistics of the matter.
    Last edited by SYNACK; 13th January 2008 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #7

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    No PAT test and you are in breach of H&S. How about you remove all the memory so they don't work and have to be scrapped?

    Whatever happens, get it in writing from your Head so that you are covered if anything goes wrong. If he refuses to sign the paperwork that says it is not your responsibility then get the Chair of Governors to do it instead ... failing that speak to your union.

    Putting the life of staff and students at risk is terrible!

  8. #8
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by blacksheep View Post
    Hi,

    This is sort of my first post here so hi all!

    What do you guys/gals thinks of this,

    I have totally got rid of all win98 boxes while i built the school a nice network (around 300 pcs). I got rid of them for obvious reasons, I was replacing them with a new modern OS (2000 or XPP) and suitable machine to go with it. Basically building a domain and the non technical people here decided to flood the school with a load of cheap unetworked 98 machines, but it sort of helped staff somewhat in between (although it went against my judgment). Now a few years on they are networked in every room but still have a difficult members of staff. I have win98 machines been setup (all by them) in a room on its own with no network connectivity (made sure the sockets were off becoz of all the fiddling going, just check my dhcp logs ), no PAT testing, no antivirus management.
    My reasons for no 98 is simple, I do not want to build a new network and add them to the domain, they dont do GPolicy, directory traversal etc. they are easy to install pirate s/w on (and they have), and obviously with no antivirus kids will stick their usb stick in and sooner or later start getting work lost from what builds up in the private suite. They are also opening machines in their department to play around. Head wont do anything ive tried. Any ideas? Leave it and cover myself?

    Thanks.
    Hi

    Sorry but what role are you in the school and who is procuring and installing the 95 Boxes ?

  9. #9
    Unvalidated User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    the Pub
    Posts
    255
    Thank Post
    7
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Thanks for the replies so far, at least I dont feel im the only one who thinks it should be done right. Lots of problems with that department as that one guys mentality has seemed to spread to others to some degree and the HOD is not exactly friendly. Through hassling the management he has managed to get admin (local!) access to his PC (or the schools PC where he sits!) and one other guy did in the dept. but I have made them sign policy sheet to say that any illegal software installed is their responsibilty plus a nice but about if they try anything on like network scanning I will disconnect them from the school net (and I will regardless of Head).
    The 98 machines are the other story but he will only try to get more with time, he has got this far. The original 98 box procurment was years ago but they all but been decommisioned by me over time. Just these other 4 still remain.
    FYI I am the school network manager (they officially call me network coordinator whatever that means, probably viewed as IT technician).
    Did I mention the big wallet of copied CDs and the 'well they do it in other schools' reply I get!
    'home machine' mentality is the best way I can describe it
    Last edited by blacksheep; 14th January 2008 at 09:09 AM.

  10. #10

    Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bromley
    Posts
    4,155
    Thank Post
    215
    Thanked 1,259 Times in 790 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    507
    eeeeek!

    okay, as mentioned before write a letter to the head explaining ALL your concerns, and get a signed copy from him. thats first priority, you've gotta cover yourself.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    307
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Check your job description. If you have a role in there that states you are respsonsible for the licences on all computers in the school, remove any software that is on there which is not legal. You can give them notice in order to back up any work, but unless you have something in writing which states you no longer have control over these machines it will still be you that is held responsible.

    The attitude of "other schools do it so we should be able to" is just plain stupid. If it is against the law, it is against the law....ignorance is not an excuse. If you are employed to look after the school network, then it is you who should be making the decisions regarding what is installed on computers. You should have records of all the licences the school has and know when you have hit that limit you either don’t install any more, or buy more licences.

    By the way, when you write to the Head & Governers, put a timescale on your request. It is easy for the school to let things drag on hoping it will just be accepted. But either you have something in writing which places the machines outside your responsibility, or they have the same restrictions in place as the rest of the networked PCs. As people have said, make sure you cover yourself with the appropriate paperwork.

  12. #12

    Andrew_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    2,963
    Thank Post
    64
    Thanked 374 Times in 284 Posts
    Rep Power
    159
    PAT:-

    Be careful claiming that they are "illegal" or "against H&S" if they haven't been PATed. Whilst PAT testing is a good way of proving it, the legal requirement is "to have a safe system of work" and to be able to prove that "equipment is maintained so as to prevent danger".

    I fully accept in your case that neither of the requirement is being met, but don't damage your case with inaccurate quoting of non-existent "law".

  13. #13

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    PAT:-

    Be careful claiming that they are "illegal" or "against H&S" if they haven't been PATed. Whilst PAT testing is a good way of proving it, the legal requirement is "to have a safe system of work" and to be able to prove that "equipment is maintained so as to prevent danger".

    I fully accept in your case that neither of the requirement is being met, but don't damage your case with inaccurate quoting of non-existent "law".
    Taken from http://www.pat-testing.info/legal.htm

    Scope of the legislation

    It is clear that the combination of the HSW Act 1974, the PUWER 1998 and the EAW Regulations 1989 apply to all electrical equipment used in, or associated with, places of work. The scope extends from distribution systems down to the smallest piece of electrical equipment.

    It is clear that there is a requirement to inspect and test all types of electrical equipment in all work situations.
    There is the duty of care that is implicit in a school under the Children's Act 2004, that each child is legally entitle to learn in a safe environment. Failure to have qualified people assess the safety of the environment is in breach of this (guidance from DfES presentation on Every Child Matters in 2005). This covers all areas of the physical environment that the various H&S laws envelop.

  14. #14
    Unvalidated User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    the Pub
    Posts
    255
    Thank Post
    7
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Ok.. this is great lots of info here for me, thanks again.
    I have had another moan today to the head and have reiterated (feeling much more confident about the issue thanks to you ppl) to the HOD. At least she has accepted that I am going to remove them but I did offer replacements (after they'd agreed). I must remove them soon before any more goes down.
    I have one win98 box now but HOD is happy for me to get the person who it belongs to sign for it. I was going to write up something to say that it is their responsibilty for the software on it and they declare they have legal copies. It wont go on the network though and im unlikely to ever support it. I will have to get it PAT tested by the guy who does it for obvious reasons (I think I will memo that to the head and HOD too so they know)
    For the machines I have given them local admin rights I have written another sheet, and got 3 people to sign to state that the onus is on them (that wasnt on the first) not to install unlicensed software so that the school remains legal and that any install can be traced back to them (I gave them a seperate local admin account under a name, not hard to get around the standard local admin but they would have to reset the account pwd). Plus another bit to basically say 'if he trys to mess with the network or bugger the machine I have the right to dis him'.
    As for opening the machine and having a play.. I will have to moan to him and log it somewhere.
    Also, Found 'bonjour' service and tools on there too! I think its a sort of network scanning util that looks for bonjour enabled devices and make the machine bonjour capable too (sigh).
    So sort of there ??

    I was quite dissapointed that they couldnt be bothered to check the PAT theirselves, im sure as science teachers they are aware of shock hazards, oh well ill sort it!
    Last edited by blacksheep; 14th January 2008 at 04:04 PM.

  15. #15

    Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Fylde, Lancs, UK.
    Posts
    11,804
    Thank Post
    110
    Thanked 583 Times in 504 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    224
    Bonjour is an Apple network protocol.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 28
    Last Post: 15th August 2010, 09:47 AM
  2. Certain Staff
    By button_ripple in forum General Chat
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11th December 2007, 10:37 AM
  3. 3 or more it staff?
    By browolf in forum School ICT Policies
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 8th February 2007, 12:38 PM
  4. IM for staff use
    By ITWombat in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 29th May 2006, 04:27 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •