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Network and Classroom Management Thread, RM CC3/4 in Technical; For the past 15 years or so, I've managed to stay away from all things RM. No offence to those ...
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    Question RM CC3/4

    For the past 15 years or so, I've managed to stay away from all things RM. No offence to those guys, but it wasn't ever anything I needed to get my head round so didn't bother.

    Now, whilst looking around for another placement recently, It would seem that knowledge of RM CC3/4 is almost a prerequisite of applying for jobs. It doesn't seem to matter if you've done without it, for years and are familiar with windows server environments... No CC experience = No job.

    Does anyone out there work in a RMCC environment, but not use the RMCC Tools? Is this even possible? I would of though it would be possible.

    If not, or even if so, can anyone recommend a cheap and effective way of learning the CC3/4 administration without having access to the toys.

    Many thanks

    _____________
    Fruity

    PS: we did have a RM nimbus Network when I was at school.

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    sparkeh's Avatar
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    I would think, but may be proved wrong, that if a site has cc3/4 then they won't be trying to manage it without the tools. Reason being that you can quickly get into a mess if you start mucking about too much outside the tools. This is especially true of cc4 where almost everything runs from a central database rather than just being tools on top of a vanilla setup (and you do not want to screw the db up I can tell you). Also, if you have a toolset that you have paid for and support by RM, you are going to use them. But as I said, someone may prove me wrong.

    cc3/4, in principle, is not difficult to manage. The tools are straightforward and can be learned in a day, easily. For me, the experience you would take into a job is more about learning the quirks,workarounds and contacting the right people at RM to fix problems, rather than learning the tools.

    As for learning the tools, there is no cheap way to access/learn these. I guess a way forward would be to partner up with a friendly local NM who can help you out? Offer to spend some holiday time helping out with rebuilds?

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    Fundamentally, CC3/4 is no different to any other middleware layer out there. The interface may be different but the concepts are the same and ultimately it's all Microsoft underneath. I don't think that any experienced NM would have much trouble adapting to it if they took it on in a new job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    Fundamentally, CC3/4 is no different to any other middleware layer out there. The interface may be different but the concepts are the same and ultimately it's all Microsoft underneath. I don't think that any experienced NM would have much trouble adapting to it if they took it on in a new job.
    Mate, that's exactly what I thought but its amazing how many people seem to have used these products for so long that they are scared at the thought of having no on site knowledge about them.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not slow to learn, but it seems it gives you the edge if you have prior knowledge of such things. A foot in the door if you will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    ... This is especially true of cc4 where almost everything runs from a central database rather than just being tools on top of a vanilla setup (and you do not want to screw the db up I can tell you). Also, if you have a toolset that you have paid for and support by RM, you are going to use them.

    cc3/4, in principle, is not difficult to manage. The tools are straightforward and can be learned in a day, easily. For me, the experience you would take into a job is more about learning the quirks,workarounds and contacting the right people at RM to fix problems, rather than learning the tools.

    As for learning the tools, there is no cheap way to access/learn these. I guess a way forward would be to partner up with a friendly local NM who can help you out? Offer to spend some holiday time helping out with rebuilds?
    No this gets me thinking.....

    If, for example, you use CCSomething in an environment for a while, but then decide not to renew your contract with RM, how screwy will your network/domain become if you try and remove the CC* controls? I'd imagine this might well cause big issues.

    I think I am going to have to find a friendly neibourhood IT manager to let me have a look at this RM stuff.

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    I don't know about CC4 but we migrated from CC3 to a vanilla network last year. We didn't rebuild the domain, we built an entirely new OU structure inside the existing one and deleted the RM written GPOs which were awful.

    I won't pretend that we haven't had problems but I don't think those problems are related to us choosing to migrate that way

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    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fruity View Post
    No this gets me thinking.....

    If, for example, you use CCSomething in an environment for a while, but then decide not to renew your contract with RM, how screwy will your network/domain become if you try and remove the CC* controls? I'd imagine this might well cause big issues.
    Well... depends on how you go about it. Personally I would rebuild from scratch, easier and less headaches, but I guess you could create a new OU with your own GPOs (don't even think about reusing the RM ones! :P ) and move over. But then you would still need to rebuild the machines anyway.

    But yeah, I think a new build is the way to go.

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    That depends on what you've already got installed. Remember that there are plenty of products out there that interface directly with AD and don't take to domain membership changes very kindly. Completely rebuilding a domain would mean rebuilding Exchange if you use it too which isn't a trivial task at all.

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    And I think that's the big problem for some of these schools.

    All the time that there management system is in place (in this case RM) they (and this probably means the SLT etc) feel "safe" that its the way to go.
    The prospect of change away from what they are use to sets Alarm bells ringing. CC3/4 might be all that the school or its neighbours have ever experienced, so they feel they need to have CC3/4 personnel on board, even if this means they have to stay tied into the CC contract.

    The limited experience I've had with CC3 environments is that they are fairly old OS's with fairly low numbers of IT personnel on site, who wouldn't have the time (and in some cases the knowledge) to native Windows Networks, so they migrated to CC4. SLT/SMT don't really have any idea of the complexities of the system, so they assume they MUST have a CC3/4 experienced network manager when they do their next recruitment drive because their existing NM has retired / quit/ broke down / died from exhaustion.

    But I suppose, if it was so easy to opt in and out of the CC networks, everyone would be doing it all the time.

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    Changing your management system is never a trivial exercise, RM or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    Changing your management system is never a trivial exercise, RM or not
    I quite agree.



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