^ Exactly this
Originally Posted by SYNACK
What a silly argument, excluding products in the same category because they don't sell enough to declare another victorious.
Originally Posted by seawolf
Why is it silly to set parameters for a comparison? Most every comparison has some parameters otherwise it would take years to do the comparisons after which time no one would care as all of the products would be obsolete (but we would know the best one). Editorials do it all of the time "We've compared the most popular <whatever> and here are the results...".
Originally Posted by nathan
If this wasn't common practice, then you would never see articles such as these:
MSI X340 Slim: The best laptop you've never heard of - TechRepublic
The Best Laptop That You Don't Know Exists - Tynan
15 new cars you've probably never heard of - MSN Autos
But, in any case this same mag have done comparisons that didn't set the "most popular" parameter as well, as ZeroHour made reference to in previous post.
Gotta disagree here, seawolf. Windows Phone market share is almost 12% in the UK and growing in most other markets. For the real skinny look here. There was no need to exclude any phone with an awesome camera that could be considered an iPhone competitor other than "fanboy-ism". That said, my Lumia 920 does take better pictures overall than my iPhone 5 which was released around the same time.
With the exception of Australia and Spain, there is a decline of iOS, BB and Other (symbian, flashOS etc) sales across "westernised" or "modernised" nations.
Droid Sales are UP - 4.81%
iOS Sales are DOWN - 4.16%
WP Sales are UP - 3.96%
BB Sales are DOWN - 2.15%
"Other" Sales are DOWN - 3.37%
This is going off the top 20 nations phone operating system sales and is based from October 2012-October 2013.
If I factor in to today
Droid Sales are UP - 4.83%
iOS Sales are DOWN - 4.21%
WP Sales are UP - 4.01%
BB Sales are DOWN - 3.62%
"Other" Sales are DOWN - 3.92%
It's not silly to set a few parameters (i.e in this case is it primarily a phone and does it have a camera), but to then say it has to of sold x amount to enter the competition is daft. The amount it's sold has no reflection on what is being tested, the camera.
Originally Posted by seawolf
It's like testing for the fastest car in the world but excluding hyper cars because they don't sell as many as a focus rs.
You know, it's just astonishing how an argument is still being made here that it's illogical to decide to test the "most popular" individual smartphones (as in units sold) and then to exclude a phone (Nokia) that has a small percentage of the total market sales (few units sold). When, what would be illogical would be to include a phone that is not among the most popular by sales figures and include it in a most popular comparison.
We've already been through the whole market share argument, and what seems to still not sink in is the facts. The market share of a Nokia running WP might be 99% in some random suburb somewhere in the world. However, this is what the actual sales figures worldwide show, which is that WP (the OS not a particular phone) has a 3% market share.
2013 FULL YEAR OPERATING SYSTEM MARKET SHARES
Rank . . OS . . . . . . . . . 2013 units . . share . . .2012 units . . share . . 2011 units . . share
1 (1) . . Android . . . . . . 767.3 M . . . 78% . . . 452 M . . . . . 65% . . . 208 M . . . . . 43%
2 (2) . . iOS . . . . . . . . . 153.4 M . . . . 16% . . . 136 M . . . . . 20% . . . . 93 M . . . . . 19%
3 (6) . . Windows Phone . 33.3 M . . . . 3% . . . .16 M . . . . . . 2% . . . . 5 M . . . . . . 1%
4 (3) . . Blackberry . . . . . 23.0 M . . . . 2% . . . 33 M . . . . . .5% . . . . 52 M . . . . . 11%
Others . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10.3 M . . . . 1%
TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . 990.0 M . . . . . . . . . . . 695 M . . . . . . .. . . . 486 M
Communities Dominate Brands: Final 2013 Smartphone Market Share Numbers - Full year and Quarterly Q4 data by Top 10 brands, plus OS shares, plus installed base
Nokia as a company has 2.9% market share as of the end of 2013. So, at best a particular Nokia phone is going to have less than a 3% market share - if they only sold one phone. Which they don't.
What this comes down to is that the league of anti-fruits don't seem to like it when anything to do with the company named after a popular fruit is mentioned in a positive light, so the barbs come out and all rational thought seems to disappear in an instant.
As for me, I think Windows Phone has a lot going for it. It's original, quite intuitive, and Nokia is making some great phones lately. I'm not surprised they are steadily increasing their market share. The fact still remains though, that WP does not have a large market share and a particular Nokia WP even less so. So, deal with it. And, feel free to take a look at the sister review of smartphone cameras that did include the Nokia (with its 40MP zoom lens) - linked to by @ZeroHour - where it crushes all of the competition.
Personally I buy a phone because I want to use it as a 'Phone' ie making calls / sending text messages etc, don't get me wrong it is great that they have a lot of other features regardless of being android / iphone / nokia ( or whatever else ) with regards to music players, video players , browsing the web, using it like a camera as the phones improve over time etc but for me the camera side of a mobile phone is more a convenience thing so if I didn't have an actual camera on me and I wanted to take some photo's or video footage etc then I can still do so using my phone.
Doing all these comparisons on camera / photo quality and whatever else between phones, I know how anti apple most people on edugeek are and prefer android or something else. Personally I have an iPhone, mostly due to already being in the iOS / Apple eco system. Not overly keen on android just yet so just stucking with apple for now, yeah yeah I know locked in a box etc meh
Anyway carry on with the debate or whatever ......
Surely this 'debate' has to be over, I think we should all agree to disagree and send me some eduhobnobs because I'm poorly!!
So because people dispute the merits of finding the "best smartphone camera" without actually testing all competitors your classing them as anti-fruits. The iPhone is a brilliant phone, i should know i have one. But i've also tested others and believe the cameras were better. It has nothing to do with disliking Apple or any other company which you seem to think - i just find it really odd that if your trying to find the best camera phone you would narrow down the choices.
Originally Posted by seawolf
Also "most popular" doesn't actually have to mean sold the most. Thinking a product is the best and actually buying it are two different things. I think an Aston Martin is better than my Audi but i have an Audi.
Heres a list of the actual marketshare (not that it actually matters).
[sigh] OK. I'll give this one last try to explain it. The original article (by an objective, unbiased site as far as I can tell) stated that they had tested the iPhone 5s against its "five main competitors" (i.e. most popular models after the iPhone).
Originally Posted by nathan
So, it was not an attempt to find the best camera phone money could buy. If it were, the iPhone 5s wouldn't have stood a chance of winning the contest (I have unreservedly stated that already). However, if you were one of the many people who had purchased one of the 6 most popular phones last year (a large number of people), the iPhone 5s actually takes better pictures than some of it's technically superior major competitors based on this "blind taste test". That was the point of the whole article and as far as their comparisons went. Full stop.
Ok, lets settle on this - some of us think that the parameters used for model selection were too limiting as to make the test near enough pointless.
Yes, we can see the point that it was the most popular phones etc... However, we think that the list was still too limited.
What is the point of a test if it limits itself to an arbitrary list of phones based purely on sales numbers, rather than focussing on capabilities?
But then, we've now circled back to my earlier point that the test was flawed to say the least. No low light shots, no high contrast or low contrast shots etc...
How's about some eduhobnobs and a big bottle of JD or Evan Williams etc
Originally Posted by abillybob