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Netbooks, PDA and Phones Thread, Why iPads are not for the Enterprise in Technical; Originally Posted by zag Thats what's so impressive about them, they just work. Somebody has been listening to the apple ...
  1. #46

    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post

    Thats what's so impressive about them, they just work.
    Somebody has been listening to the apple machine too much

  2. #47


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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    So are you saying you've never had to re-image an iPad? (For whatever reason)
    Not an Ipad - but I've re imaged several android devices as simple as Devices -> device name -> remote wipe. Done/
    Much simpler than AD. Users can pretty much manage themselves which is great from a support point of view.

  3. #48

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    I think Active directory and mice will be a distant memory in 5 years time. Microsoft have also realized this but are a little late to the party. What they are doing with Windows 8 seems madness but they know simple touch screen devices are the future and are trying desperately to take their users with them.
    Thats a bit brave new world there, no new software, books, documentation. A massive uptick in OOS/RSI and postural issues thanks to the horrifying form factor for long spells of work. The death of the USB key and USB itself, no local large scale storeage meaning the first internet outage shuts down the world.

    Its nice to know that no-one will need to do any indepth and long winded work in the future, are we outsourcing it all to china. All that precision and dealing with large datasets is far too difficult and should be left to those people in other countries do all that low level grunt work of thinking, making decisions and processing information.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    Not an Ipad - but I've re imaged several android devices as simple as Devices -> device name -> remote wipe. Done/
    Much simpler than AD. Users can pretty much manage themselves which is great from a support point of view.
    SCCM and altris offered this kind of reimage on next reboot stuff long before android even existed. As with everything, it depends at what level they are using the devices, if they are just bashing out an email or to and editing a few text documents they are effectivly typewriter users anyway and not much intellect is required on either side of the equation.

  5. #50

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    From another angle most members here hate having to support trolleys of wireless laptops and complain about having issues with slow logging on to the domain over wireless etc. and wanting to ban them and use desktops. So how are tablets that do the same going to be any better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    SCCM and altris offered this kind of reimage on next reboot stuff long before android even existed. As with everything, it depends at what level they are using the devices, if they are just bashing out an email or to and editing a few text documents they are effectivly typewriter users anyway and not much intellect is required on either side of the equation.
    SCCM2012 is supporting Windows8/RT and will have the ability to remote wipe.

    knock out the ability to install their own rubbish with remote restore to predefined settings (SCCM2012sp1) and these will be very useful.

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    This is the reason I have been refusing I-pads / Androids in my schools and waiting for a viable MS alternative. I look after some primary schools, we already have a MS server with AD and GPO and all the curric software runs on windows. I do not want to add other control systems or software that will only run on I-pads or Androids and double up on my work load. I agree that if Apple had got in to my schools before MS then it might be a different scenario, with everything being Apple I would not want to change to MS, but MS got in first.

    Another thing to note is the fact that Windows 8 will also run on desktops, which gives me 1 OS to look after.

  8. #53
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    This is the reason I have been refusing I-pads / Androids in my schools and waiting for a viable MS alternative. I look after some primary schools, we already have a MS server with AD and GPO and all the curric software runs on windows. I do not want to add other control systems or software that will only run on I-pads or Androids and double up on my work load. I agree that if Apple had got in to my schools before MS then it might be a different scenario, with everything being Apple I would not want to change to MS, but MS got in first.

    Another thing to note is the fact that Windows 8 will also run on desktops, which gives me 1 OS to look after.
    Thats the whole point though. You don't need AD any more with Ipads (although saying that our proxy still uses it to track internet usage even on the ipads).

    Windows 8 will be an utter failure. You just have to see the interface and confused desktop behind it to understand why. Microsoft will get there eventually though, I just don't think windows 8 will be it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    Somebody has been listening to the apple machine too much
    Actually ... let us just sit and think about this response. Someone who is a regular member has posted from personal experience of supporting a type of device and the OS in *their* school and has expressed that it works well for them. How is that listening to the to the Apple machine too much?

    I am sure that others could throw it back at you and so that you have been listening to the Apple Haters too much.

    Please ... try to be prepared to accept that some people have a good experience and it works for them fine, in the same way that others need to be willing to accept that it is a difficult and painful experience for some members.

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    Thats the whole point though. You don't need AD any more with Ipads (although saying that our proxy still uses it to track internet usage even on the ipads).
    So you do not have any windows computers in your school?

    From a primary school angle I only have time to look after 1 type of OS and while we have a need in the office for windows computers and then a need for AD I will not be adding other systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    So you do not have any windows computers in your school?

    From a primary school angle I only have time to look after 1 type of OS and while we have a need in the office for windows computers and then a need for AD I will not be adding other systems.
    So the choice is down to what support is available and the amount of time it takes to do this? I'm not trying to say that this is wrong but if the school was willing to put more money / time in if that is what would be required would other systems be considered?

    Also ... moving to W8 is still going to involve more work than just putting more WinXP / Win7 systems in ... I can remember the interesting fun people had changing profiles, etc when going from W2K systems to Win7 ... and since we have schools going from WinXP to W8 has this been considered? Will it be the same amount of time as introducing / managing iOS / Android, more time or less time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Windows 8 will be an utter failure. You just have to see the interface and confused desktop behind it to understand why. Microsoft will get there eventually though, I just don't think windows 8 will be it.
    Whether its a commercial failure, I don't know but personally I think Windows8 will be great for schools. The start menu is just a program loader, so it'll be nice and simple for the children.

    Remote wipe/restore of RT, easy to program metro apps, proper integration with a currently existing systems and no itunes. I'm looking forward to seeing what we can do with it and feel it has alot of potential.


    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Also ... moving to W8 is still going to involve more work than just putting more WinXP / Win7 systems in ... I can remember the interesting fun people had changing profiles, etc when going from W2K systems to Win7 ... and since we have schools going from WinXP to W8 has this been considered? Will it be the same amount of time as introducing / managing iOS / Android, more time or less time?
    Win8 profiles are the same as Win7. So same amount of work as changing from XP to Windows7, which has to happen at some point unless you are ditching MS all together.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 16th July 2012 at 12:07 PM.

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    We have some IOS devices as well as Android, linux OSX and Windows.
    The amount of time they require to look after is grossly overstated. They generally work well with few problems. Its good to have a mixed environment.

    We put in systems to manage them. It's often a different system depending upon the device (mac server, google apps, spacewalk or active directory). Ultimately you put in the systems that are needed for the application. I couldn't imagine saying to SLT that we would refuse to install SIMS because we didn't have an SQL server! or that we wouldn't take windows computers because we already have apple.
    Active directory is certainly becoming less relevant to this school as the number of devices that it cannot support increases.

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    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    So you do not have any windows computers in your school?

    From a primary school angle I only have time to look after 1 type of OS and while we have a need in the office for windows computers and then a need for AD I will not be adding other systems.
    We support Windows and Apple devices.

    But the point I'm trying to make is the Apple devices require virtually no support. They just work. Our joblist has nearly 10,000 jobs on it. I think there are only 13 for ipads

  15. Thanks to zag from:

    Sean-OC04 (3rd August 2012)

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    @GrumbleDook

    So far all you seem to have done is question people's concerns and worries about integrating them into their own specific environments. Hardly any schools will have a 1:1 iPad:student ratio so these things have to be shared. I too have some of these concerns for most of the reasons above.

    If you have a working solution for managing them properly and effectively, allowing access to student files and work areas (which is expected by teachers and SLT) and deploying apps easily then please share it with us rather than adopting the rather high and mighty stance that you seem to have taken over this.

    I could of course grabbed the wrong end of the stick entirely

    HBJB
    Last edited by Heebeejeebee; 16th July 2012 at 12:16 PM.

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