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MIS Systems Thread, Progresso Fail In Birmingham? in Technical; I hear Progresso has failed badly in Birmingham, with none of the three sample school being able to adopt it ...
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    Progresso Fail In Birmingham?

    I hear Progresso has failed badly in Birmingham, with none of the three sample school being able to adopt it at all. I hear the one that did try and go live has erm, well died.

    Is this hearsay and gossip, or is this product really not ready at all? Is it that Birmingham are not managing it properly?

    Who knows. If you do, let us all know please, I'd hate to be recommending a dead duck to my school.

    Thanks

    John

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    Michael's Avatar
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    There are pros and cons with all MIS systems, but from what you're saying, it doesn't sound good.

    Facility still has a number of years left, so for the time being I'd sit back and relax. Only select a replacement MIS when required, rather than be the beta tester.

    And remember, love them or hate them, Capita will be releasing (hopefully) a cloud based version of SIMS and possibly FMS in a few years.

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    david_1152's Avatar
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    Interesting. The school I work for is one of the samples here in Birmingham for Progresso. Happy to report our news as and when it happens, but at this moment in time - watch this space. We are yet to have our data uploaded or indeed played with the system much at all. We have had some training, which I have to say was promising - Progresso does look good. BUT, then again we're 5 months in and still no system to play with.

    Yes Beta testing does have it's issues, but as of yet we're yet to test anything.

    I'll update as things change,


    Dave.

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    ...
    And remember, love them or hate them, Capita will be releasing (hopefully) a cloud based version of SIMS and possibly FMS in a few years.
    Don't hold too much hope, it's not on the current 5-year plan.

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    APC
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    I am aware that there are two schools in Birmingham who are fully live with progresso and as part of the 'Pioneer' project were fully expecting to be testing the product and feeding back on their experiences to enhance development etc etc...

    And am also told that more schools will be going live in the near future - as said above its very early days at the moment...

    Don't hold too much hope, it's not on the current 5-year plan.
    thats not what Capita have told Birmingham Schools directly!

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    Michael's Avatar
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    MIS systems will go web based, it's only a matter of time. To continue with a local client application just isn't realistic. You also open up the possibilities of using MIS on Windows, Linux and Apple, in school or on the move. It would be ideal for school trips, but also for parents to update their own contact information (for example).

    They'd also be more room for various other enhancements/requirements as time goes on. You could argue it could also be more secure too. Instead of updating .NET Framework on 100+ workstations, you'd just have to worry about updating it on your MIS server.

    The only downside (as far as I can see), is if it goes down it could create a problem, but I'd expect this to be extremely rare. There are enough server technologies to keep sites available.

  7. 4 Thanks to Michael:

    JohnCondon (22nd May 2012), Oaktech (23rd May 2012), projector1 (7th November 2012), vikpaw (23rd May 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    MIS systems will go web based, it's only a matter of time. To continue with a local client application just isn't realistic. You also open up the possibilities of using MIS on Windows, Linux and Apple, in school or on the move. It would be ideal for school trips, but also for parents to update their own contact information (for example).

    They'd also be more room for various other enhancements/requirements as time goes on. You could argue it could also be more secure too. Instead of updating .NET Framework on 100+ workstations, you'd just have to worry about updating it on your MIS server.
    You know something, just once it's nice to hear someone else saying that

  9. Thanks to JohnCondon from:

    Michael (22nd May 2012)

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    I'd love to think it'll happen like that but I seriously doubt it. Short of an open source system or a serious new entry into the market to level the playing field no one has any reason to do the above or even do it well. Web applications aren't a magic bullet either, it's perfectly possible to write horrible web apps that are unusable, inefficient, insecure monstrosities.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I'd love to think it'll happen like that but I seriously doubt it. Short of an open source system or a serious new entry into the market to level the playing field no one has any reason to do the above or even do it well. Web applications aren't a magic bullet either, it's perfectly possible to write horrible web apps that are unusable, inefficient, insecure monstrosities.
    You're absolutely right, they could develop a web based MIS which is horrible. It's in their interest though to get it right because potentially more LAs or schools would buy into it. If it allows a school to do a lot more with the database, then the cost is more justifiable.

    The only downside to a web based solution is that there any many different browsers out there. Looking at HTML5 for example, there isn't currently a one solution fits all. All the current crop of browsers support different 'features' of HTML5, which just makes programming sites that little more difficult.

    I suspect that due to the complexity of an MIS system, MS SQL and .NET will be the choice rather than MySQL and PHP. It all boils down to support, seeing as schools are sold an MIS system - so if something critical happened to the database, Microsoft in theory would/should be able to assist. Some engineers also argue that MS SQL scales better with the latest versions of MS SQL supporting database clustering. The reality is MIS databases are only going to get bigger, so this makes a lot of sense.

    Web based solutions can end up being considerably cheaper too. It's going to cost less money to create a web based MIS that works on Windows, Linux and Apple, rather than create a locally installed application for each platform, along with any dependancies. This isn't including the fact there are multiple 'current' OSes such as XP, Vista and 7 which all have their advantages and disadvantages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APC View Post
    I am aware that there are two schools in Birmingham who are fully live with progresso and as part of the 'Pioneer' project were fully expecting to be testing the product and feeding back on their experiences to enhance development etc etc...

    And am also told that more schools will be going live in the near future - as said above its very early days at the moment...

    thats not what Capita have told Birmingham Schools directly!
    It's not what the MD told me at BETT 2012!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I'd love to think it'll happen like that but I seriously doubt it. Short of an open source system or a serious new entry into the market to level the playing field no one has any reason to do the above or even do it well. Web applications aren't a magic bullet either, it's perfectly possible to write horrible web apps that are unusable, inefficient, insecure monstrosities.
    Have you heard of Aspen | Follett ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I'd love to think it'll happen like that but I seriously doubt it. Short of an open source system or a serious new entry into the market to level the playing field no one has any reason to do the above or even do it well. Web applications aren't a magic bullet either, it's perfectly possible to write horrible web apps that are unusable, inefficient, insecure monstrosities.
    Ummmm... unless i'm reading this wrong, progresso IS entirely web based, so someone (serco) has absolutely felt the need to do 'the above'.

    The cycnic in me says that this is an attempt to make it harder to leave an MIS for another, and to allow them to charge for their uber secure hosting, but only time will tell if i'm paranoid...

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    Does anyone know if the Schools in Birmingham have gone live yet? If so did Progresso work as sold?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I'd love to think it'll happen like that but I seriously doubt it. Short of an open source system or a serious new entry into the market to level the playing field no one has any reason to do the above or even do it well. Web applications aren't a magic bullet either, it's perfectly possible to write horrible web apps that are unusable, inefficient, insecure monstrosities.
    Couldn't have set you up better for Aspens introduction to the market! Completely web based, stable and a large proven client base already. Cloud is the way forward, offering 24/7 anywhere in the world without the need for a bolt on synchronising information to a localised server. I personally wish Serco all the luck in the world in getting Progresso rolled out right, they have seen what the market is calling for and moved to meet customer needs. That is no disrespect to those supplies that have had web based packages for years now

    There are some interesting moves with education technology right towards cloud, hosting environments, basically taking your entire desktop, apps, files etc etc and moving it to the cloud... Available anywhere any time. BYOD quickly taking shape. This is another reason Aspen is kicking off so well: any OS any browser and Internet enabled device...

    I'm not sure it is right to say it has failed, but such a huge shift is taking time to implement. Like I said, good luck to them!

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    Loads of schools seemed to jump aboard Progresso from launch or so we have been led to believe, yet we still haven't been given permission to speak to any schools in the south east to see how its all going and communication from Serco has been dreadful. I do get the impression those who have moved across early are struggling, not least because there is very little 3rd party integration at the moment.
    The product itself looks good on the surface though.

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    I am completely opposed to Cloud based MIS for a number of reasons and sorry if this is a bit off track.

    Ties you more into an MIS more.(all hardware offsite)
    Have to buy all MIS modules from one supplier instead of perhaps purchasing other modules or functions that work with your MIS "no one supplier is the best at everything".
    At some point charging by user or amount of data stored a possibility etc.
    Internet down no access to Data.
    The Provider decides if the system needs to go down for maintenance upgrades etc. (No Access and could be at critical time for the school)
    Loads of schools data on one system "Hackers thankyou very much one system to target to get Millions of pieces of information."Data protection and who's responsability"
    Uses up my Internet bandwith running Reports, taking registers etc.

    The above is why I will be staying away from Cloud based MIS systems if at all possible.

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