+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 76
MIS Systems Thread, SIMS .net Autumn Release pulled in Technical; Originally Posted by enjay I disagree with that so much! Accepting that complete testing is not possible, either by us ...
  1. #31

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,407
    Thank Post
    368
    Thanked 639 Times in 521 Posts
    Rep Power
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by enjay View Post
    I disagree with that so much! Accepting that complete testing is not possible, either by us or by Capita, the basics you list are something which capita can test. Something deep in the bowels of SIMS not working is understandable, possibly even excusable, however problems with fundamentals like class lists and pastoral structure are simply unacceptable.
    re-read the post.
    Who is affected:

    Customers who have Registration groups which
    have been in different year groups in the past. This could be caused by a number
    of reasons including:

    1) At some point in the past the school have
    amended their pastoral structure to include a mix of Horizontal and Vertical
    Year groups. The registration groups would therefore have moved years from Year
    1/Year 2 to Year 2 for example.

    2) The school have decided to rename a
    registration group and assign it to a different year. In other words, instead of
    creating a new registration group for someone they have renamed an existing one
    and moved its year.



    What effect does it have?:
    In SIMS it will appear as though a new Year has been created (for example Year
    1/Year 2) and it will appear to take some of the Registration groups with it.
    To be fair to Capita, they're now going to test this scenerio in every future build

  2. #32

    synaesthesia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    5,963
    Thank Post
    583
    Thanked 1,020 Times in 785 Posts
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    464
    Obviously it's no surprise. When was the last time a perfect piece of software was released to the public? Only when entire games/programs occupied less pages of code than you can count on both hands and were on certain rubber-keyed computers.
    Capita have to be particularly careful though; unlike a game or version of Office, a tiny flaw in their MIS system could cause major problems that have an impact on school's finances, resouces, staffing - just about anything and everything. I think we'd all agree they are better to pull a release until such problems are solved rather than waiting to patch it, if that's even possible. There will be very few people in the country that have as close a grasp on this as Mr Neal here, so despite my dislike of Capita as a company will happily believe what he says is for the best.

  3. #33

    vikpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    5,968
    Thank Post
    673
    Thanked 1,383 Times in 1,145 Posts
    Rep Power
    350
    I still stand by my statement, you can't test everything. Mostly issues are related to nuances at particular schools. Everybody does their timetable differently, has different reports / subreports, changed their pastoral structure / didn't change their structure, you can't test all of that. Things a school has done wrong in the past can have an effect on future usage. That's why there are so many site specific patches. A school shouldn't have to, but is the only person who really can do a thorough test.

    @Sivadam can attest to the fact that his school finds more faults than any other, because of the level of usage they have with SIMS and fine tuning that's been done.

    To be honest, i think Capita should hold more school data and be allowed to test on it. I've offered mine but it's not allowed. I used to keep a copy of my data there regularly so it's ready for testing if i do get an issue. When there is an issue the last resort is for them to look at your data, i don't see why they can't keep it from schools who give permission, run an anonymiser on names / birthdates and phone numbers if they have to. so they have more real test data. Not all schools can take part in UAT, but if capita did it for you, then you'd have more confidence in it.

    For our part, we really have to do at least basic testing. We do so much in SIMS now, we couldn't live without it for even a few hours. That's even before we make it available externally!

    In an ideal world the updates would be backwards compatible to the point where you could rollback an upgrade if it went funny, but keep any new data that may have been recorded.

  4. #34
    apeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Lost
    Posts
    1,612
    Thank Post
    95
    Thanked 115 Times in 111 Posts
    Rep Power
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by enjay View Post
    I disagree with that so much! Accepting that complete testing is not possible, either by us or by Capita, the basics you list are something which capita can test. Something deep in the bowels of SIMS not working is understandable, possibly even excusable, however problems with fundamentals like class lists and pastoral structure are simply unacceptable.
    Isn't this abit of a cheeky comment when a couple of posts back is:

    Quote Originally Posted by enjay View Post
    No, for three reasons:
    1) time
    2) can't test everything
    3) shouldn't have to. I don't do that with any other company's software.

  5. #35
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,488
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    75
    I don't see why you think it is cheeky - in both posts I state that I believe that Capita should test the software before release.

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,326
    Thank Post
    36
    Thanked 353 Times in 238 Posts
    Rep Power
    79
    We do test the software endlessly but sometimes errors are invisible until they get out into the field. Every release goes through unit, system, UAT and advanced release to try to get it right. I'm afraid that humans will always make errors but we do everything we can to double and tripple check. I'm very concerned that these errors occurred because there was clearly a process failure - in this case the error is obvious when it occurs but it doesn't go wrong that often so it's difficult to spot unless you have that condition in the data.

  7. #37
    apeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Lost
    Posts
    1,612
    Thank Post
    95
    Thanked 115 Times in 111 Posts
    Rep Power
    42
    I just find it funny that it was in reponse to someone who does test it despite the fact that you dont test it and here is what you state:

    "I disagree with that so much! Accepting that complete testing is not possible, either by us"

    It might just be me but i find it cheeky to state how much or how little someone should do testing prior to deployment especially after stating '2) can't test everything' in ref to what you test.

  8. Thanks to apeo from:

    matt40k (28th November 2011)

  9. #38

    vikpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    5,968
    Thank Post
    673
    Thanked 1,383 Times in 1,145 Posts
    Rep Power
    350
    No matter. We all probably read it differently.
    The point is the more of us that test the better it is.
    Is it possible @PhilNeal to release an ISO of the beta so you those schools with test setups can volunteer to do some optional testing, outside of any formalised process. Any heads up on a problem is better than nothing.

  10. #39
    Guest

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,754
    Thank Post
    1,458
    Thanked 489 Times in 375 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    At our LA, we always build a couple of new VM images and upgrade SIMS/FMS to the Beta when it's released, and then then we also build more VM's and upgrade them to the main release before we roll it out to Schools. The VM's are always available to the team so that each officer can test their own area supported areas for any issues. As well as the VM's, We also have a number of different SIMS test setups where different Schools types have allowed us to collect a copy of their data. We use this for testing new releases as well as testing instructions that we are producing to ensure that they are accurate.

  11. #40
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,488
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by apeo View Post
    I just find it funny that it was in reponse to someone who does test it despite the fact that you dont test it and here is what you state:

    "I disagree with that so much! Accepting that complete testing is not possible, either by us"
    What I meant by "us" was schools in general, not specifically the people at my school.

  12. #41

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,407
    Thank Post
    368
    Thanked 639 Times in 521 Posts
    Rep Power
    158
    If you had a central hosted environment you could have two copies of all the schools data, one live and one beta\training\next release. Ideally you would only want to give this access to certain people however otherwise they could end up entering data onto the wrong system!

  13. #42

    fiza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,123
    Thank Post
    416
    Thanked 313 Times in 264 Posts
    Rep Power
    152
    Just posted on Supportnet

    *** SIMS 2011 Autumn Release - Please Read 28/11/2011

    28/11/2011

    We are continuing to investigate possible resolutions for the data issues described below. Work on producing the new SIMS 2011 Autumn release is also continuing. Unfortunately I cannot as yet announce a confirmed date for them. I am hoping to be able to give you more information tomorrow.

    We apologise for any inconvenience that this delay might cause you but please be assured that we are doing all we can to resolve this.

  14. #43
    Sivadam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dronfield - Derbyshire
    Posts
    1,449
    Thank Post
    136
    Thanked 208 Times in 175 Posts
    Rep Power
    55
    I would like to refer SIMS Users to the following link from the Sticky Items on the SupportNet website.
    Apologies to those that do understand how much testing of SIMS Releases is done.
    Those that don't, may I humbly suggest you read the document.

    The link is: User Acceptance Test
    Last edited by Sivadam; 28th November 2011 at 08:32 PM.

  15. #44

    vikpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    5,968
    Thank Post
    673
    Thanked 1,383 Times in 1,145 Posts
    Rep Power
    350
    Out of interest, do all LAs / Support companies take part in Beta testing? You'd think it was a must if they are supporting more than even one school.

  16. #45
    Guest

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,754
    Thank Post
    1,458
    Thanked 489 Times in 375 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    Out of interest, do all LAs / Support companies take part in Beta testing? You'd think it was a must if they are supporting more than even one school.
    I thought the Beta is made available to every LA in Schools Manager under the Tst1 and Tst2 sites? Seems like a no brainer to install it on to a virtual test system. Capita provide test data if required, but I'm sure if a school is happy for you to collect a backup, there is no reason why you can't test it against a "live" schools data.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [SIMS] SIMS Tidy Backups - SQL 2008 - Autumn release
    By matt40k in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 11th February 2011, 01:12 PM
  2. [SIMS] SIMS .net and FMSSQL Autumn 2010 released!
    By matt40k in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 24th November 2010, 10:14 PM
  3. [SIMS] SIMS 2010 Autumn Pre-Release Note
    By matt40k in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 28th September 2010, 09:06 PM
  4. SIMS.net Autumn release - Options 5.7
    By localzuk in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 1st December 2009, 03:37 PM
  5. SIMS.net February main release delayed
    By NetworkGeezer in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 6th February 2007, 08:25 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •