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MIS Systems Thread, System Manager 7 in Technical; Hi All, I am a data manager in a large sec. modern. My IT department will not allow me to ...
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    System Manager 7

    Hi All,

    I am a data manager in a large sec. modern. My IT department will not allow me to have Permissions to manage groups - as they feel it will be opening up the system too much!!

    Anyway, I wanted to confirm my suspicion that it is possible to be added in to the SM7 group, then have my perms defined so that I could view and manage groups with much else.

    Charlotte
    Last edited by ctaylor; 21st September 2011 at 04:07 PM.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    A competent SIMS system manager would know that it is indeed possible to enable you to mange groups and nothing else.

    There are pre-defined permissions groups in SIMS for a variety of common job roles, but custom ones can be created that allow a lot of flexibility as to the exact areas accessible and even whether these are read only access or whether you can edit them (in many cases, whether you can edit all details in that area or just your own!)

    The problem is, quite often the IT team that manage the SIMS permissions do not actually use SIMS themselves so don't really understand the request and so you find yourself in a situation like yourself whereby a blanket "no" is given to requests for raised privileges.

    I would try having an informal talk to them, if that fails contact your local SIMS support team (if you have one) and ask them to have a word. Your last resort should be your line manager/SLT - it is ridiculous to deny a Data Manager the ability to create groups in SIMS.
    Last edited by LosOjos; 21st September 2011 at 03:51 PM. Reason: clarity

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    ctaylor (21st September 2011)

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    Thank you very much for the reply.

    That is exactly what I have been trying to communicate, and you did so very articulately! I have gone through all these stages and am even getting 'no' from the top.

    I'm going to try again though.

    Charlotte

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    @ctaylor:

    I would definitely schedule an informal meeting with your IT systems team as I am sure they would be amenable even if they are reluctant at first.

    Demonstrate exactly what it is you require within Sims itself (with the help of a Sims account with access rights) and maybe they will help you.

    I know as most other Systems managers are usually very helpful to all admin users when it comes to Sims.

    Personally my data manager has those access rights within Sims and I have no qualms whatsoever, work with them to understand Sims more as my data manager does with me so together you can iron out any problems.

    Have another go for their sakes.

    Good Luck

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    Sivadam's Avatar
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    This is just the latest example that I have seen where the SIMS Manager role is assigned to the wrong people. The SIMS Manager simply MUST be somebody in school who intimately knows the software itself. This is yet another example of a school inappropriately assigning System7 to an ICT department that just does not understand the requirements.
    And, before bricks start flying my way, that statement is not aimed at all such departments, as I personally know some excellent SIMS Managers who work in these areas.

    Also see thread:- System Manager access in SIMS.net
    Last edited by Sivadam; 22nd September 2011 at 08:38 AM.

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    Thanks for all the re-assuring repsonses. As you can imagine this is just one of the issues I'm having with IT.

    It's fair to say that I'm not an IT expert, but I am however getting towards that level operationally in SIMS and have a very decent general knowledge of technology. I'm unsure about which way I can approach it anymore. Being one of the youngest staff here, and this only being my third academic year has put quite a few backs up but really all I'm interested in is doing my job properly and therfore having an impact on the pupils themselves.

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    zag
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    Just in defence of the systems manager here I gave someone permissions that she simply had to have then got told off by someone else for letting her see contract details!!

    Cant win sometimes in our position

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Just in defence of the systems manager here I gave someone permissions that she simply had to have then got told off by someone else for letting her see contract details!!

    Cant win sometimes in our position
    Not meaning to be rude, but you really should have checked with HR and SLT before letting anybody access contract info... that's just common sense, isn't it?

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    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Not meaning to be rude, but you really should have checked with HR and SLT before letting anybody access contract info... that's just common sense, isn't it?
    Well I think it was a Sims thing in the end. Apparently the rights for "creating lookups" also gave you the rights to personnel for some reason. We called Sims and they said it was a known problem at the time.

    Hopefully Systems manager 7 sorted that as its much easier to see the complete rights now.

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    Also am I missing the point of the thread - that it's possible for staff to have permissions they NEED in SM7 without having access to things they don't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Well I think it was a Sims thing in the end. Apparently the rights for "creating lookups" also gave you the rights to personnel for some reason. We called Sims and they said it was a known problem at the time.

    Hopefully Systems manager 7 sorted that as its much easier to see the complete rights now.
    Fair enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by ctaylor View Post
    Also am I missing the point of the thread - that it's possible for staff to have permissions they NEED in SM7 without having access to things they don't?
    No that's correct, in the vast majority of cases anyway. There are certain times (though very few) where it's not possible to give access to one area without giving access to others, but creating and maintaining groups is not one of those areas.

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    I'm the data manager here and i dont mean to gloat but i have network admin rights not just full control of Sims.
    i've never found it difficult to justify why i need the access. I'm first line support for all things Sims (installs/errors/why wont it do this questions).
    My job spec states i manage all aspects of the data, the fact i hold the position of data manger implies i have a certain level of responsibility/accountability for my use/actions relating to all of the systems.
    Maybe my role is slightly different to other establishments.
    I could understand why an office admin/teacher might have their access restricted but not someone running the system.

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    I work for a Federation (2 large sec moderns and a sixth form) where started two years ago as the assesment co-ordinator and have since had a promotion of sorts to data manager (that is my actual job title). I now manage a team of 4 admin staff who do all the data and assessment. You would think i most places this would be enough seniority to warrant having these permissions.

    I feel I am the only person really who can say what access people need, as I have the background knowledge as well as knowing people's job roles plus I work closely with so many senior staff across both sites that it's no longer viable to put a request in to the helpdesk everytime (paper form which needs to be hand delivered to IT office!!). IT staff then scowl across the desk at me and tell me it will be done when they can get round to it. The badly designed form doesn't even have a space for stating what perms the user should have. It simply lists which modules they need access to. The whole thing is a mess basically but they have such a tight reign on things it's impossible to improve/change anything.

    I'm totally frustrated by it all, they think I'm going to mess the system up or something. It really shows the state of the situation where I am telling them what access I need and how to adminitser it to me, because they have no clue how to.

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    I have quite a close relationship with our ICT support team, Ive been here longer than they have, and as such they see Sims as mine.
    I carry out upgrades and have full access to the server. They deal with installs on desktops as part of the normal school image.
    Dont think they would dream of telling me about how something was going to be setup or what access permissions would be.
    We might discuss any issues but the final decisions for sims and data are mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pubgrub277 View Post
    I'm the data manager here and i dont mean to gloat but i have network admin rights not just full control of Sims.
    i've never found it difficult to justify why i need the access. I'm first line support for all things Sims (installs/errors/why wont it do this questions).
    My job spec states i manage all aspects of the data, the fact i hold the position of data manger implies i have a certain level of responsibility/accountability for my use/actions relating to all of the systems.
    Maybe my role is slightly different to other establishments.
    I could understand why an office admin/teacher might have their access restricted but not someone running the system.
    You have highlighted the main issue. All schools work differently. I am the (wait for it!) Curriculum & Administration Services Manager. Our 'Data Manager' just handles the Assessment data! I wish the expression 'Data Manager' was totally wiped out. It is very misleading!

    I also have access to the Servers etc but the ICT Services Team are the ones who normally look after Upgrades, Backups etc.
    That is unless they are not here, in which case I do 'em - despite always saying I do not have the technical expertise!

    I also often need SysMan Backups at extremely short notice, which is why I keep arguing for this to be retained in Sysman7 (or via another quick route!). But that is another story .........
    Last edited by Sivadam; 22nd September 2011 at 12:47 PM.



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