+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 53
MIS Systems Thread, Sims Discover in Technical; Cheers Phil. I do remember seeing it at a Capita conference and it was a little slow then (running on ...
  1. #31

    synaesthesia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    5,489
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 876 Times in 683 Posts
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    438
    Cheers Phil. I do remember seeing it at a Capita conference and it was a little slow then (running on a laptop)
    Obviously with so many variations of machinery and OS it'll run on no doubt there's going to be some combinations that won't work quite as well as others. Hopefully in our case we can narrow down what's dragging it back a little and then nail it

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Surburbia
    Posts
    2,178
    Thank Post
    74
    Thanked 307 Times in 243 Posts
    Rep Power
    114
    Performance, especially how quick you can update the the screen with whatever, is a key factor in ease-of-use - always has been, always will be, but..

    first releases of products are often compromises and performance problems can be addressed in future versions
    ..I think that is where it often all goes wrong. Manglers, sales-droids et al who just don't get behind the scenes that well respond to bells & whistles hitting their screens quickly (so they can make important exec decisions about colours, fonts and the like), and getting those there and kind-of-working all too often takes precedence over a really well-considered underlying architecture. It really doesn't take long before the "weight" of it all makes it increasingly difficult to go back and do what you should have taken your time over in the first place i.e. performance fixes are often compromised by limited 'wriggle-room" later down the line. I'll leave how that could possibly be true in the fabulous, brave new world of reusable, extendable, flexible, abstract OO-everything, as an exercise for the reader.

    IME, which is similar, devs have long had that tendency to shrug and respond "throw more h/w at it" - heard it over and over forever, but it's by no means unique to Capita. That said, it's been much more common for server-side - the pragmatic realities on client-side have generally been better recognised and better respected.

    .net is pretty fast
    dotNet can be pretty fast, and generally sufficiently fast, serious number-crunching (which this scenario clearly isn't) excluded. I'm generally happy to write in pure dotNet for user-land code now, but were someone else of the current generation to implement the same code, I would expect it to go around the houses quite a bit e.g. why write a line to add two and two together, when you can implement an ever so clever, general purpose arithmetic engine, which of course despite the ever-lasting intention will still get thrown away within a few years to make way for the latest new and exciting dev-tech.

    SQL has a lot to answer for re. resources and performance too, but if customers have an "easy/standard access to our data" tick-box there's not much choice.

  3. #33


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,489
    Thank Post
    199
    Thanked 629 Times in 481 Posts
    Rep Power
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    SQL has a lot to answer for re. resources and performance too, but if customers have an "easy/standard access to our data" tick-box there's not much choice.
    I don't think that's the fault of SQL. My experience is that programmers are often skilled at procedural programming but treat SQL as if it is a just another procedural programming tool. They write some SQL and it gives the results they expect, they don't care about the cost and often enough in a development environment, aren't aware of the cost in a production environment. This can be exacerbated by naive developers using multiple transactions (ok, first we will ask the database for a list of students, then we will take that result set as an array and ask the database to give us the subject results for each of those students, one by one) where one transaction will do the job. Lack of database skills also leads to poor schema design and poor index selection. Well designed relational databases - even ones run on MS SQL, are quite capable of churning through results sets consisting of millions of rows in very short order - IF they are well designed and implemented. If not, go make a coffee or two.

  4. #34
    RobG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    11
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    I'd like to drag this back to the original question from synaesthesia about hardware.

    Our data manager/exams officer went for training/demo on this and due to the fact that the laptop they demoed it on struggled, he's asked for a new pc for it.

    His pc is getting on a bit, it's a 3ghz PentiumD (the original dual core pre-c2d, just a pair of p4's jamed onto the substrate under the IHS) 2gb of ram and agp x4 ATi Radeon 7200 (yes the original radeon which is DX7)

    the great info given to him about minimum spec was
    Core2Duo or AMD equivalent
    4gb ram
    A separate graphics card.
    as a technical spec that is a total joke.
    Going by that it should work, it's a dual core cpu, 2gb of ram is a bit low but should work and it has got a separate graphics card.

    I called up the Captia "help desk" about this and they could tell me nothing more than that.

    So we going to overspec, spoken to our main supplier and we looking at getting him a SB i5 2400, 8gb ddr3 1333mhz and . . .
    I was thinking gts250 for cost, cores and raw performance it's great value for money, they've suggested a Quadro FX380 instead
    It's a far weaker card (they are just 9500gt) however being a workstation card the drivers and support do make a major difference in most non-gaming applications (a quadro will perform around 2x-4x better than a gaming card with CAD or 3d rendering software)

    Anyone know if there's any advantage to a workstation card over a consumer card with discover?

  5. #35

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,101
    Thank Post
    512
    Thanked 2,311 Times in 1,787 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    803
    Quote Originally Posted by RobG View Post
    I'd like to drag this back to the original question from synaesthesia about hardware.

    Our data manager/exams officer went for training/demo on this and due to the fact that the laptop they demoed it on struggled, he's asked for a new pc for it.

    His pc is getting on a bit, it's a 3ghz PentiumD (the original dual core pre-c2d, just a pair of p4's jamed onto the substrate under the IHS) 2gb of ram and agp x4 ATi Radeon 7200 (yes the original radeon which is DX7)

    the great info given to him about minimum spec was
    as a technical spec that is a total joke.
    Going by that it should work, it's a dual core cpu, 2gb of ram is a bit low but should work and it has got a separate graphics card.

    I called up the Captia "help desk" about this and they could tell me nothing more than that.
    Sorry to break it to you, but when a company gives you a minimum spec of C2D or AMD equiv and 4GB RAM, a Pentium D and 2GB of RAM is not 'a bit low'! And expecting a DX7 era card to be fine for a program released this year is expecting a lot also.

    That tech spec is perfectly fine from what I can see!

  6. #36
    BatchFile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cumbria
    Posts
    948
    Thank Post
    542
    Thanked 128 Times in 106 Posts
    Rep Power
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by ajp233 View Post
    Not overly impressed with Discover so far to be honest. I thought the graphs were going to be much more flexible than they are. Anyone else feel the same?
    Yup - falls on it's @r5e by not being able to do behaviour and achievement points between dates... (Ok I suppose I could do an excel macro report to count up the points between dates then import them into an AM aspect - but come on!)

  7. #37

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,139
    Thank Post
    353
    Thanked 577 Times in 474 Posts
    Rep Power
    142
    @BatchFiles - it's the first major release, give it a few years and it'll do more fancy things then you can shake a stick at.

  8. #38

    LosOjos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    5,185
    Thank Post
    1,285
    Thanked 1,030 Times in 730 Posts
    Rep Power
    658
    I'd also like to suggest openly to any Capita employee's following this thread (@PhilNeal I mean you ) that you add "64-bit Windows Environment or Windows Server Environment" to the list of minimum requirements. The reason? You can't have 4GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics card without them, 32-bit Windows (with the exception of server versions) are limited to 4gb of RAM total, that includes system memory and graphics memory.

    That being said, I now have Discover running on my dual core 3.2Ghz Intel with 4GB RAM (3GB accessible) and 1GB Geforce GT240 and it runs flawlessly
    Last edited by LosOjos; 15th July 2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Pedantry

  9. #39


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    338
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    @BatchFiles - it's the first major release, give it a few years and it'll do more fancy things then you can shake a stick at.
    you think silvershite will be around in a few years? MS seem to be dropping it like a hot potato in favour of HTML5/javascript to keep up with Apple/Google. I'm sure Capita will happily pass on the redevelopment costs to schools for the next (low system requirement, platform independent, browser based) version.

  10. #40
    RobG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    11
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sorry to break it to you, but when a company gives you a minimum spec of C2D or AMD equiv and 4GB RAM, a Pentium D and 2GB of RAM is not 'a bit low'! And expecting a DX7 era card to be fine for a program released this year is expecting a lot also.

    That tech spec is perfectly fine from what I can see!
    It's a joke because c2d covers a rather large range of cpu's, go back and try using one of the old low end 1.8ghz c2d or one of the laptop 1.2ghz ones, there's a massive difference between those and a c2d running at 2.6ghz or higher
    And it's nothing to do with "expecting" the card to work, I don't expect the card to work, but listing "A separate graphics card." (and yes that is the exact wording on the documentation I got for the technical spec.) they don't say dx9 minimum.
    So yes is a TOTAL JOKE, is like listing the minimum requirement to enter a Formula 1 race as "a car"

    I'll also point out that sme of the top end onboard/ondie gpu's are actually better than some bottom end graphics cards.
    Last edited by RobG; 15th July 2011 at 02:15 PM.

  11. #41

    TechMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    3,237
    Thank Post
    218
    Thanked 387 Times in 288 Posts
    Rep Power
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by RobG View Post
    I'd like to drag this back to the original question from synaesthesia about hardware.

    Our data manager/exams officer went for training/demo on this and due to the fact that the laptop they demoed it on struggled, he's asked for a new pc for it.

    His pc is getting on a bit, it's a 3ghz PentiumD (the original dual core pre-c2d, just a pair of p4's jamed onto the substrate under the IHS) 2gb of ram and agp x4 ATi Radeon 7200 (yes the original radeon which is DX7)

    the great info given to him about minimum spec was
    as a technical spec that is a total joke.
    Going by that it should work, it's a dual core cpu, 2gb of ram is a bit low but should work and it has got a separate graphics card.

    I called up the Captia "help desk" about this and they could tell me nothing more than that.

    So we going to overspec, spoken to our main supplier and we looking at getting him a SB i5 2400, 8gb ddr3 1333mhz and . . .
    I was thinking gts250 for cost, cores and raw performance it's great value for money, they've suggested a Quadro FX380 instead
    It's a far weaker card (they are just 9500gt) however being a workstation card the drivers and support do make a major difference in most non-gaming applications (a quadro will perform around 2x-4x better than a gaming card with CAD or 3d rendering software)

    Anyone know if there's any advantage to a workstation card over a consumer card with discover?
    At a meeting I was at Wednesday someone was saying they had it running with an integrated graphics chip on an i.., 5 but could have been a 7. I'll be happier with that as a decent chip and lots of RAM is really a given today, a dedicated graphics card is odd in my mind.

    The issue is they openly admit they don't know the min spec as they have had all sorts of results on differing hardware. So the only advice seems to be test it and see if it works.

  12. #42
    CAM
    CAM is offline

    CAM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Burgh Heath, Surrey
    Posts
    3,709
    Thank Post
    755
    Thanked 296 Times in 233 Posts
    Blog Entries
    60
    Rep Power
    243
    So how essential is a graphics card? I'm stuck as I have been asked to find a PC near the 300 mark but they all come with on-board or insufficient RAM.

  13. #43
    BatchFile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cumbria
    Posts
    948
    Thank Post
    542
    Thanked 128 Times in 106 Posts
    Rep Power
    59
    It'll run on most things that would be up to spec to regularly run SIMS - it's just a bit jerky flipping graphs over.

  14. #44
    RobG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    11
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I'd also like to suggest openly to any Capita employee's following this thread (@PhilNeal I mean you ) that you add "64-bit Windows Environment or Windows Server Environment" to the list of minimum requirements. The reason? You can't have 4GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics card without them, 32-bit Windows (with the exception of server versions) are limited to 4gb of RAM total, that includes system memory and graphics memory.

    That being said, I now have Discover running on my dual core 3.2Ghz Intel with 4GB RAM (3GB accessible) and 1GB Geforce GT240 and it runs flawlessly
    Yes that's very true as well, you'll lose from the 4gb roughly 250mb (due to motherboard addressable resources) +video card ram, so with a graphics card with 1gb of vram you're generally down to around 2.75gb system ram with only a 32bit OS.

    Nice to here the gt240 is doing well for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey View Post
    At a meeting I was at Wednesday someone was saying they had it running with an integrated graphics chip on an i.., 5 but could have been a 7. I'll be happier with that as a decent chip and lots of RAM is really a given today, a dedicated graphics card is odd in my mind.

    The issue is they openly admit they don't know the min spec as they have had all sorts of results on differing hardware. So the only advice seems to be test it and see if it works.
    That's sort of my exact point, not having had experience of this before and they themselves don't seem to know, so I came here to ask others, esp on the point of workstation vs consumer card.

  15. #45
    skunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    310
    Thank Post
    87
    Thanked 37 Times in 32 Posts
    Rep Power
    28
    Just as we are deploying these into our offices. Should be fun.

    If it doesn't run then we shall wait for the govt. to increase school funding again before using Discover. Would be a shame, it is supposed to be nice.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [SIMS] Discover
    By matt40k in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 6th May 2011, 08:57 AM
  2. [SIMS] Discover delayed already :(
    By vikpaw in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 19th March 2011, 12:11 PM
  3. Sims Discover or Medal of Honour?
    By Banjo in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 3rd November 2010, 06:20 AM
  4. [News] SCIENTISTS DISCOVER NEW ELEMENT
    By laserblazer in forum Jokes/Interweb Things
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 3rd March 2010, 09:30 PM
  5. WDS - Using Discover CDs
    By Lithium in forum Windows
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12th December 2007, 07:35 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •