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MIS Systems Thread, Academies, 'new' SIMS licenses and the EU concept of 'Exhaustion rights' in Technical; Re having to re-licence when moving to academy status. Consider this analogy: Many car parks now ban transferring of parking ...
  1. #31
    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Re having to re-licence when moving to academy status.
    Consider this analogy: Many car parks now ban transferring of parking tickets and some require you to enter your reg number into the machine when getting your ticket expressly to stop this. Now if I pay for three hours parking, what difference does it make if my car occupies the space or someone else's car is in there? Say a space is booked and paid for for three hours. If I only need it for, say, one hour, why not let another car use the space for the remaining two hours? Answer: because they want to squeeze more money out of you, that's why.

    I can't help feeling that there is a large element of this in the requirement to re-licence MIS systems. For our part, many of our customers have changed to academy status and we don't require them to re-licence. Several have moved to new builds and this requires us to modify our system significantly to fit with their new circumstances. But we don't charge extra for this, we do it for the sake of good customer relations. I think part of the difference is that we don't have lots of greedy shareholders demanding ever increasing dividends on their investments... oh, sorry just accidentally jumped on my soap box there. I'll get off now.
    Last edited by EdWhittaker; 29th March 2011 at 07:22 PM. Reason: re-wording

  2. #32

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Perhaps we are looking at the wrong angle. Remember what happened to MS when they shipped everything with Internet Explorer, but then got done for anti-competitiveness. Perhaps that's what's happening here? Maybe because Capita is the market leader, they have to do this to prevent the other companies suing over anti-competitiveness? Just throwing that one out there as we are all quick to bash them for extortion (myself included) but there could well be this angle? Correct me if I am wrong please PhilNeal/Capita

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    I think it's a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't scenario. On the one had you've got Bromcom saying Capita over charges (http://www.bromcom.com/press/pdf/071209_Press.pdf) but you know if Capita went, hey schools £250 for each module per year, they would be part of the many MIS suppliers moan about the charging too little and putting them out of business.

    Not actually sure why Bromcom published that document, are they hoping schools would spend the money on WebFolder?

    Personally re-licensing is stupid, Microsoft doesn't do it, hundreds of others don't. It's my money and other tax payers money that's being wasted paying for something AGAIN for no real reason. I've yet to see any actual Academy only new features appear, we're getting the end of year 1 for some Academies who have used SIMS and FMS "out-of-the-box", so they've paid ££££££ for what, that good feeling that they are legal? Maybe they'll get something nice off Capita soon.

    Phil if your reading this how about a nice card celebrating the opening of the new Academy for each one, ideally with a nice cheque, failing that a few free modules?

  4. #34

    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    I think it's a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't scenario.
    Well if damned either way, i'm sure many would rather they "don't", and were damned by other companies - it's not like it doesn't happen now anyway.

  5. #35

    matt40k's Avatar
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    Problem is if they do say, hey you can transfer, the LA got to agree and more importantly, are they going to refund the existing (new style) Academies? I feel trying to extract money from Capita is like blood from a stone lol

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    Let's stop the rot!

    In relation to this issue of Capita's demand for Academies to re-licence. This is not just a matter of abstract money. This relicensing cost, which Capita is forcing on schools, has a direct effect on classroom provision. I read from the Capita spokesman on this thread that the Government has provided £25k for relicensing. It seems a bit of a coincidence that the cost of relicensing SIMS/FMS is £25k (now reduced with so called discounts). This is a cynical attempt to cash in the so called Academy gravy train. Capita probably saw the millions been wasted through BSF on architects, contractors and consultants and thought to themselves: Where's our slice of the pie?

    Schools get nothing for their outlay! This is purely money for old rope. Capita are holding schools to ransom, obtaining money with menace. Capita SERCO, G4S are sewing up the public sector contracts and it is not for the benefit of this country (Dispatches - Britain's Secret Fat Cats - Channel 4).

    The reality is that Capita is charging because it thinks it will get away with it. It is depending on schools' apathy and fear at the thought of changing systems. This nonsense about anti-competitiveness (and it is total nonsense) is a smokescreen. I would urge school to liaise with each other and their LEAs and make a concerted to resist this. We have already done and have already secured discounts but that is not good enough. Now capita have said they will provide training in an effort to justify the charges. I would also urge those thinking of the Academy route to contact the Academies Trust and let them know what is happening. If schools make a big enough stink about this then maybe something will happen but it won't if you don't!

    Our society is changing and so is our education system. We have to make a stand and let it be known who is driving this change. Is it the educationalists or is it the private sector? If it is the latter then our children will suffer. We have a responsibility to do something about it. I'll finish with the Edmund Burke quote: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
    If you think I am exaggerating have a look at this: YouTube - The Biggest Company You've Never Heard Of

  7. 2 Thanks to Lipjam:

    EdWhittaker (30th March 2011), scholarpack (30th March 2011)

  8. #37

    matt40k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipjam View Post
    the cost of relicensing SIMS/FMS is £25k
    Only problem I have with your statement.

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    So what you're saying is, that Capita isn't the biggest fattest cat? If not, i'm moving to Serco, i wont be outdone!

  10. #39

    nephilim's Avatar
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    was going to say, relicensing is around £14k for establishments with 2000 pupils +, so unless they are mega sites for whole cities, its unlikely they will have more than that!

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    Original quote from Capita that came to our school (Based on 11-12K approx. pupils on roll... I do not want to give the exact size):
    SUBTOTAL £24,062.00
    VAT@ 20.0% £4,812.40
    ORDER TOTAL £28,874.40

    Then with all these so called discounts it is now about £11k with 2 days training. Excuse me being cynical but if someone is going to screw you it does help to think you're getting a bargain screw!!

  12. #41
    CAM
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    Would it be legal to rent your old licence from the LA? Say you have an LA licence, school goes academy then says to the LA "Hey, we want your SIMS Support and thus your licence" and pay just as much as previous years. LA still owns the licence but you use it because you are getting support for SIMS from the LA and paying them the same sub as before. Ransom dodged, business as usual?

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipjam View Post
    Original quote from Capita that came to our school (Based on 11-12K approx. pupils on roll... I do not want to give the exact size)
    Jeez, 12,000 students ... that's one helluva school!

  14. #43

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipjam View Post
    Original quote from Capita that came to our school (Based on 11-12K approx. pupils on roll... I do not want to give the exact size):
    SUBTOTAL £24,062.00
    VAT@ 20.0% £4,812.40
    ORDER TOTAL £28,874.40

    Then with all these so called discounts it is now about £11k with 2 days training. Excuse me being cynical but if someone is going to screw you it does help to think you're getting a bargain screw!!
    11k pupils?! What type of school are you!?

  15. #44

    nephilim's Avatar
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    11K pupils = 5-15 modern high schools. That is so ridiculous it is ridonculous (made up word we use on Xbox Live)!

  16. #45
    Lipjam's Avatar
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    Sorry it's 1.1K-1.2K should have just put 1200 approx.

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