+ Post New Thread
Page 16 of 17 FirstFirst ... 6121314151617 LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 248
MIS Systems Thread, Academies, 'new' SIMS licenses and the EU concept of 'Exhaustion rights' in Technical; Originally Posted by GeneralDreedle So all these schools have been through BSF in recent years and have managed service providers. ...
  1. #226
    superfletch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South
    Posts
    444
    Thank Post
    153
    Thanked 77 Times in 61 Posts
    Rep Power
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDreedle View Post
    So all these schools have been through BSF in recent years and have managed service providers. These have BSF contracts for 5 or 10 years whereby the service provider supplies SIMS and SIMS support.
    Just to get a bit of clarity here when you say the managed Service provider supplies SIMS what do you mean that the Managed Service provider actually supplies the license (and not just support / hardware / upgrades).

    If so then I'd assume they are they in some way Capita accredited to do this and (on the techie side of things) then surely the managed service provider have to negotiate with Capita how to make the changes and apply a new Academy Database as for financials the details in the managed service contract will probably explain who has to stump up for the licensing costs though.

    If the LA still actually supply the license to a BSF school but not the hardware/support then aren't you really in the same boat as other schools whereby you move your SIMS license over to Capita and the Managed Service Provider just starts dealing with them instead of the LA?


    Sorry if I've missed the point...
    Last edited by superfletch; 16th June 2011 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #227
    GeneralDreedle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The North
    Posts
    26
    Thank Post
    5
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by superfletch View Post
    Just to get a bit of clarity here when you say the managed Service provider supplies SIMS what do you mean that the Managed Service provider actually supplies the license (and not just support / hardware / upgrades).

    If so then I'd assume they are they in some way Capita accredited to do this and (on the techie side of things) then surely the managed service provider have to negotiate with Capita how to make the changes and apply a new Academy Database as for financials the details in the managed service contract will probably explain who has to stump up for the licensing costs though.

    If the LA still actually supply the license to a BSF school but not the hardware/support then aren't you really in the same boat as other schools whereby you move your SIMS license over to Capita and the Managed Service Provider just starts dealing with them instead of the LA?


    Sorry if I've missed the point...
    At risk of full disclosure...

    1) A school pays £20K a year to an MIS provider for several years in a direct relationship. Then it is persuaded to join a BSF scam. As part of this it must use SIMS because that is what the managed service will provide. The contract is between LEP and Service Provider, (and in BSF land the details are assiduously concealed), BUT at no time in this story has the school been in any SIMS-based relationship with the local authority.

    2) At commencement the Service Provider installs SIMS servers and facilitates migration, and supports and upgrades SIMS. School pays £250K annual fee to BSF project for managed service which includes this SIMS software/support/work/license.

    3)Now the school becomes an academy it gets a £25K bill for SIMS. Surely SIMS cost is included in the managed service? So the service provider will now get a rebate from Capita? But BSF contracts are set up like life sentences, so the school gets no rebate passed on, and now pays twice. Remember, as an academy it is now in a Direct relationship with Capita, but the software and support it gets are worthless because it has no control of the installation and is already paying for SIMS and support. How can this be right?

    Is our Service Provider obliged to sort this out? I bet they don't see any obligation to get into academy negociations with a supplier. They never costed that into the Dick Turpin plan... and Capita are knocking at the school's door with the milk bill.

    To get back in your boat, are you saying that schools who have been receiving SIMS from LA never paid the LA for that service? And therefore gained no cost reduction from that on gaining Academy status?

  3. #228
    Sivadam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dronfield - Derbyshire
    Posts
    1,449
    Thank Post
    136
    Thanked 208 Times in 175 Posts
    Rep Power
    55
    Slightly off topic - but related:-

    Contracts for Academies
    As you may know, the DfE informed us that all academies that converted from an existing school would have to issue new contracts to staff. However, an academy contacted us recently to inform us that the DfE had told them that they did not have to issue new contracts. We asked the DfE about this and they have now confirmed that issuing of new contracts to staff is NOT necessary in all cases. It is therefore important that academies ask the DfE what position regarding new contracts applies to them and that the DfE response is passed to any party that is supporting the academy.
    Unfortunately, we have added functionality to our School Workforce Census 2011 application to capture the date the academy was formed and to ensure that contract and absence information could not be supplied for periods before that date. We may now have to delay the SIMS Summer Release to remove this functionality.

    Jim Haywood
    Product Manager for Statutory Returns
    Posted: 17th June 2011 by Jim Haywood

  4. #229
    EdWhittaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochdale
    Posts
    111
    Thank Post
    6
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
    Rep Power
    24
    A new article on this topic: Capita 'sheltering behind' competition law, says expert - News - TES Connect

    Quote from a 'leading lawyer' "The charge of a fresh licence fee to an academy which in practice is stepping into the shoes of a predecessor school might be seen to be an exploitative abuse."
    Ouch! Just say what you mean why dontcha?

  5. #230

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    102
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
    Rep Power
    23
    I have asked this question on another thread too, but is this issue now resolved as a result of the IMLS framework?

  6. #231

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,157
    Thank Post
    522
    Thanked 2,552 Times in 1,981 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by jayemm View Post
    I have asked this question on another thread too, but is this issue now resolved as a result of the IMLS framework?
    What issue? The high cost new license costs? No, that hasn't changed as far as I know!

  7. #232

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,450
    Thank Post
    369
    Thanked 650 Times in 531 Posts
    Rep Power
    160
    Be nice if it did. Sure lot of Academies would welcome the refund.

    This made me laugh "we have invested significant sums to provide academies with high-quality products and services" - Yer, changing the FMS icons

  8. #233

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    102
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
    Rep Power
    23
    @localzuk specifically the fact that academies that convert are required to purchase licences again.

    This document appears to suggest companies on the IMLS framework should not do this. http://media.education.gov.uk/assets...r%20costs.docx

  9. #234

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,157
    Thank Post
    522
    Thanked 2,552 Times in 1,981 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by jayemm View Post
    @localzuk specifically the fact that academies that convert are required to purchase licences again.

    This document appears to suggest companies on the IMLS framework should not do this. http://media.education.gov.uk/assets...r%20costs.docx
    I wasn't aware of that. I have a meeting with someone from Capita next week, so will bring it up there. Anything to save the school some cash!

  10. #235
    EdWhittaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochdale
    Posts
    111
    Thank Post
    6
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
    Rep Power
    24
    Half of secondary schools are now, or are about to become, academies, so if they are being charged for re-licencing somebody is making some handy money.

    Half of state secondary schools 'turned into academies' - Telegraph

  11. #236

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    121
    Thank Post
    26
    Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by jayemm View Post
    @localzuk specifically the fact that academies that convert are required to purchase licences again.

    This document appears to suggest companies on the IMLS framework should not do this. http://media.education.gov.uk/assets...r%20costs.docx
    That's very interesting, would it be lazy of me to ask for any more detail on the context of that document? We are currently starting the process of becoming an Academy and I think our business manager would be very interested to read it but if I send him it as is, he is going to ask where it came from, and in response to what.

    I tried deconstructing you link, but got deined permissions or broken links. How did you originally find it?

  12. #237

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,157
    Thank Post
    522
    Thanked 2,552 Times in 1,981 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    877
    I've just checked my work email and now have the quote for my school for our academy/SIMS migration - about £10k + support. So, it is a *lot* less than my other school but still nothing like a 'novation' of the license.

  13. #238

    GREED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Portsmouth
    Posts
    3,116
    Thank Post
    381
    Thanked 389 Times in 314 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8
    Rep Power
    180
    Tony, that is interesting news... not good news, interesting...

  14. #239

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,157
    Thank Post
    522
    Thanked 2,552 Times in 1,981 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesbury View Post
    That's very interesting, would it be lazy of me to ask for any more detail on the context of that document? We are currently starting the process of becoming an Academy and I think our business manager would be very interested to read it but if I send him it as is, he is going to ask where it came from, and in response to what.

    I tried deconstructing you link, but got deined permissions or broken links. How did you originally find it?
    It is available from this page - IMLS framework: advice and guidance - Schools

  15. Thanks to localzuk from:

    Ecclesbury (17th April 2012)

  16. #240

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,157
    Thank Post
    522
    Thanked 2,552 Times in 1,981 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    877
    Ok, an update on this. The IMLS does not cover existing licenses purchased through LEAs etc... It would simply be a mechanism to prevent a repeat of the issue in the future, should the school status change again.

  17. Thanks to localzuk from:

    Ecclesbury (17th April 2012)

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread

Similar Threads

  1. [SIMS] remove admin rights still upgrade sims
    By itgeek in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 27th January 2011, 08:22 AM
  2. IP Address Exhaustion!
    By marsdenprimary in forum Windows Server 2000/2003
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 19th January 2011, 01:13 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 13th February 2010, 10:44 AM
  4. [Video] The stunning Citroen GT concept car
    By mattx in forum Jokes/Interweb Things
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2nd July 2009, 03:10 PM
  5. SIMS.net auditing access rights
    By Oops_my_bad in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10th October 2008, 12:23 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •