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MIS Systems Thread, Academies, 'new' SIMS licenses and the EU concept of 'Exhaustion rights' in Technical; Creese, any idea how many or who? And what they did about the double SIMS bill?...
  1. #211
    GeneralDreedle's Avatar
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    We are not alone

    Creese, any idea how many or who? And what they did about the double SIMS bill?

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    Well it wouldn't be a double bill would it? They would have to purchase a new license, if the exist license was purchased by the LA. The maintaince would either be carried over - ie no cost, or the maintaince would be refunded (for the used part) and then recharged (for the remainder... which was just refunded) - like is done with normal schools*. The question would be if they could escape any contracts, but again, depends how the contract has been written.

    * Just to confirm, the school pays the LA (or such), the LA pays Capita, school becomes an Academy, mid Capita year, the LA gets refunded, pro-rata, the Academy gets charged, pro-rata, the LA would ideally, pass on the refund to the Academy.
    Last edited by matt40k; 16th June 2011 at 02:27 PM.

  3. #213
    GeneralDreedle's Avatar
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    "Just to confirm, the school pays the LA (or such), the LA pays Capita, school becomes an Academy, mid Capita year, the LA gets refunded, pro-rata, the Academy gets charged, pro-rata, the LA would ideally, pass on the refund to the Academy"

    Ah, but the BSF contracts are written "You pay £Xmillion every year for 5 years or we shoot your dog" (Something like that, I don't know the financial details).

    So how is "passing on" the saving ever going to happen? Not just for part of a year, but possibly for a decade?

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    Again, depends on the contract, if it's written well, you're locked in. Even if your school changes it's name or school type. If it isn't, it's your get of jail free card. I would image it'll get transferred across, plus I doubt it's something you really want to be worrying about, well not unless you get to review your contracts say 6months down the line.

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    GeneralDreedle's Avatar
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    Is it the red wire or the blue wire?

    I doubt it's something you really want to be worrying about
    I'm a bit vague on this. What level of public money being squandered is worth worrying about?

    50K? 100K?

  6. #216

    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDreedle View Post
    I'm a bit vague on this. What level of public money being squandered is worth worrying about?

    50K? 100K?
    Good question.

    Should a Headteacher be given free reign to spend a pot of money? I have just heard of one, a new academy, who has gone out and bought a finance package. This program needs exclusive use of a dual core server to run it. Oh, it's a primary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDreedle View Post
    I'm a bit vague on this. What level of public money being squandered is worth worrying about?

    50K? 100K?
    You don't want to be worrying about changing everything all at once, like Bromcom said, you'll be busy with 1001 things and all these new legal requirements to be make a good decision about IT contracts. Thus the idea of a cooling off period otherwise your going to be forced to make a rash decision.

    Personally, they would have been selected because they were the best and I would image not many suppliers would want to waste more money reapply for a contract that was previous ended early. At least they won't be offered as good a deal as previously.... IMHO anyway.

  8. #218

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    Good question.

    Should a Headteacher be given free reign to spend a pot of money? I have just heard of one, a new academy, who has gone out and bought a finance package. This program needs exclusive use of a dual core server to run it. Oh, it's a primary.
    I can't see a big issue with that. If it improves finance systems in the school, it seems like a good purchase. Personally, I think we should've bought into Corero at our school, but its licence is huge and we weren't willing to drop such a large change on our finance officer so suddenly. Instead, we're sticking with FMS until we know more in the future.

    From one point of view, £10k could be seen as a small amount, when compared with the problems changing so suddenly can cause.

    A 6 - 12 month 'cooling off' period would've been idea I think!

  9. #219

    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I can't see a big issue with that. If it improves finance systems in the school, it seems like a good purchase. Personally, I think we should've bought into Corero at our school, but its licence is huge and we weren't willing to drop such a large change on our finance officer so suddenly. Instead, we're sticking with FMS until we know more in the future.

    From one point of view, £10k could be seen as a small amount, when compared with the problems changing so suddenly can cause.

    A 6 - 12 month 'cooling off' period would've been idea I think!
    Really!!, giving lots of money to someone, to pass on to someone else who knocks on their door, sells them something which they later discover forces them to buy expensive equipment to be able to use it?

    What's your address, I have some nice shiny stuff for sale.

    Next thing, they'll be out buying a Lamborghini as a school bus.
    Last edited by creese; 16th June 2011 at 03:23 PM.

  10. #220
    GeneralDreedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    You don't want to be worrying about changing everything all at once, like Bromcom said, you'll be busy with 1001 things and all these new legal requirements to be make a good decision about IT contracts. Thus the idea of a cooling off period otherwise your going to be forced to make a rash decision.
    It's not about a decision, there's no decision allowed. It's about two conflicting contracts that don't make any sense.
    1) The school has a BSF support contract for 10 years whereby a supplier (the managed service provider) is bound to supply SIMS and SIMS support, and the school is bound to pay a quarter of a million pounds of public money every year for this service.
    2) The school is then told that as an Academy it must pay Capita £25K directly for SIMS and SIMS support, software and support which it cannot use because it cannot touch the servers and already has support from people who can touch the servers (the managed service provider).

  11. #221

    creese's Avatar
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  12. #222

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    Really!!, giving lots of money to someone, to pass on to someone else who knocks on their door, sells them something which they later discover forces them to buy expensive equipment to be able to use it?

    What's your address, I have some nice shiny stuff for sale.

    Next thing, they'll be out buying a Lamborghini as a school bus.
    If they said what it needed up front or the school didn't bother to find out, then that's not the supplier's fault. If someone talks about buying a system here, we make sure that we know everything we'd need!

  13. #223

    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    If they said what it needed up front or the school didn't bother to find out, then that's not the supplier's fault. If someone talks about buying a system here, we make sure that we know everything we'd need!
    You've grasped the big issue then. Of course it's the Head's fault. My point being, should people like this be entrusted with this sort of money.

    I'm not sure where the supplier comes into it, he/she is doing what they are paid for.

  14. #224

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    You've grasped the big issue then. Of course it's the Head's fault. My point being, should people like this be entrusted with this sort of money.

    I'm not sure where the supplier comes into it, he/she is doing what they are paid for.
    No individual in a school should be authorised to spend money alone - there are rules regarding auditing and proper financial procedures. If that school is allowing the head to just buy things without someone else overseeing it, then someone needs to bring this up with the governors. For example here, most expenditure goes via 4 people - the budget holder who wants to buy stuff, then the head authorises the purchase, then the order is placed, and finally the supplier is paid and 2 people sign the cheque sent to them - and those 2 people aren't the head/budget holder.

  15. #225

    creese's Avatar
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    I'm glad we agree.

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