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MIS Systems Thread, Academies, 'new' SIMS licenses and the EU concept of 'Exhaustion rights' in Technical; Originally Posted by Sivadam Unbelievable! But true, nonetheless ;-)...
  1. #136
    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    Unbelievable!
    But true, nonetheless ;-)

  2. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    With the state of our Internet Connection, via YHGfL, then that would rapidly kick out all those three options!
    Web frontend but hosted in school. All the advantages and none of the disadvantages. I was one of the few Oxfordshire schools that refused to be centally hosted by the LA because we can't rely on the connection - I wouldn't dream of externally hosting.

  3. #138

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    @edwhittaker as far as I am concerned, the choice to use any system or application has to consider "what", "how" and "why". They go hand in hand (in hand). That is why I put in the point about the ease with which some products do certain things outweighing the effort to take control of other systems. Whilst I am all for making life easy, for people using intuitive systems and for minimal effort for maximum efficiency ... just because something is difficult to do in one area it does not mean that a system should be thrown away if it has sizeable benefits in others.

    Rather than get into specifics of MIS vendors and products (as I truly have no preference) let us look at examples in other areas. Some desktop manufacturers have gone down the route of making more parts customer replaceable. The ease in which you can strip down Dell kit is an example. This is beneficial to speedy replacement of faulty parts, helpful to IT teams getting kit back on the desk and means that a company can employ low-end staff to do basic repairs (ie just swap faulty kit out). It might be, though, that it is the wrong form factor ... that the extra power brick some USFF kit has means that the desks have to be changed to safely store it away ... that when it is mounted in a certain way it makes it hard to put USB devices in to it (seen this when mounted under a desk) and introduces a chance that inquisitive hands can get into the kit to pinch parts (RAM, etc).

    Ease in one area can cause issues in others.

    One of the largest causes for swapping back MIS is poor change management. This will range from lack of communication with staff, poor training, lack of documentation, discussions about the needs of the school with the MIS provider being too narrow (predominantly the fault of the school rather than the provider) and scope / project creep. In fact, this is a major fault of *any* project when run poorly ... but MIS change is a perfect example.

    A school which doesn't know what it wants to do with data can sometimes look to a new MIS provider to give them the answers. Some MIS providers can make a massive difference here, and the benefits outweigh the pain of change, or possible limitations / differences in certain tools.

  4. Thanks to GrumbleDook from:

    Sivadam (7th June 2011)

  5. #139

    matt40k's Avatar
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    I wouldn't move away from the LA broadband @Sivadam - all it takes is for someone to claim you were downloading adult\illegal material and you could be waving goodbye to a career using a computer (unless you can find an ISP that will prove filtering at the other end).

    PS: I think @Sivadam made @PhilNeal cry, he was dreaming of SIMS Azure (ok maybe FMS Azure first).

  6. #140
    Sivadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdWhittaker View Post
    But true, nonetheless ;-)
    True that the school moved?
    True that the Teachers did not understand how to use SIMS?
    True that the Admins did not know how to set up SIMS?

    True that I don't know what I am talking about?
    Where have all the other hornets gone? I thought I would hear a larger 'buzzing' noise than this!

    Hopefully I'll get a few Red Squares back now!!!!!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 7th June 2011 at 01:37 PM.

  7. #141
    Sivadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    I wouldn't move away from the LA broadband @Sivadam - all it takes is for someone to claim you were downloading adult\illegal material and you could be waving goodbye to a career using a computer (unless you can find an ISP that will prove filtering at the other end).
    That's what has frightened everybody and so we have not changed! But it does show what we have had to put up with for years!

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    True that the school moved?
    True that the Teachers did not understand how to use SIMS?
    True that the Admins did not know how to set up SIMS?
    Are you trying to hint at you need to remember to include the cost of training in the cost of the MIS package?
    PS: Don't forget the staffing costs, staff get paid to seat in that 1,000 a day Capita training

  9. #143
    Sivadam's Avatar
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    I do all the Training here! It costs 'nowt'! (Comment Edited - 99% Cost - almost 'nowt'!)
    And I get my knowledge by the number of Software meetings, UAT meetings and workshops that I attend!
    And from SupportNet Forums of course. The wealth of experience there is vast!
    And that is my real value - contrary to the innacurate personal comment that somebody posted on here some while ago!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 7th June 2011 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #144

    matt40k's Avatar
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    I expect to see a training flyer when you "retire" mate

  11. #145
    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    @edwhittaker as far as I am concerned, the choice to use any system or application has to consider "what", "how" and "why". They go hand in hand (in hand). That is why I put in the point about the ease with which some products do certain things outweighing the effort to take control of other systems. Whilst I am all for making life easy, for people using intuitive systems and for minimal effort for maximum efficiency ... just because something is difficult to do in one area it does not mean that a system should be thrown away if it has sizeable benefits in others.
    Absolutely, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You have to take each system in it's totality. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear; the schools I referred to above didn't drop SIMS altogether, just stopped using it for behaviour.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post

    One of the largest causes for swapping back MIS is poor change management. This will range from lack of communication with staff, poor training, lack of documentation, discussions about the needs of the school with the MIS provider being too narrow (predominantly the fault of the school rather than the provider) and scope / project creep. In fact, this is a major fault of *any* project when run poorly ... but MIS change is a perfect example.
    I agree that many schools have not got their MIS set up properly and don't use them to their fullest advantage. I think you may find that some schools could save money by getting someone in to optimise their current MIS rather than changing provider.

  12. #146
    Sivadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    I expect to see a training flyer when you "retire" mate
    It's all on SupportNet Forums - Schools Section.
    I doubt you can see my contributions there as you will get the LA view as opposed to the School view, in the same way that I cannot see your version. I have always said that this is a great pity. LA Support Units can learn a great deal from high end school users in the same way that Schools can learn from efficient and knowledgable LA Support Units.
    When we mix at UAT workshops etc then this point is well emphasised! But it seems that never the twain shall meet on the SupportNet Forums! With the one exception that is!

  13. #147

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    We did ask for it as well as part of the Supportnet redesign, actually what happened to that?

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    Sivadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    We did ask for it as well as part of the Supportnet redesign, actually what happened to that?
    Great minds think ......
    I did as well.
    It's about time us school bods started to teach you LA Support guys how to use SIMS correctly! (Now if that doesn't get rid of those infernal green squares then 'nowt' will!)

    Goodness knows what happened to the re-design - maybe it was because I did not want to lose my Post count? Or that my previous record would disappear - just as it did on 12/08/2003 with the last re-design! Or the fact that I said how good Solution Search is (contrary to what many edugeek users try to tell me!)!

  15. #149

    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    It's about time us school bods started to teach you LA Support guys how to use SIMS correctly! (Now if that doesn't get rid of those infernal green squares then 'nowt' will!)
    That's where your thinking goes astray, the LA doesn't "use" SIMS, it "Supports" the problems.

    And just for that I'm going to contribute to you green decor

  16. Thanks to creese from:

    Sivadam (8th June 2011)

  17. #150
    Sivadam's Avatar
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    Yes, but you do need to know how to use SIMS correctly as one of your roles is to show your School Users exactly that!
    If you don't know how to SIMS then how can you pass that knowledge on?
    So my thinking is, once again, totally accurate!

    Maybe I have to change tactics. If I compliment you will you remove those green squares? We can always pretend that the compliment is abuse and so you can then report me, as others have done!

    I think you LA guys are all wonderfull! (that should do for starters!)
    Last edited by Sivadam; 8th June 2011 at 10:04 AM.

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