+ Post New Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 61
MIS Systems Thread, SIF enabled applications in Technical; Ahhhhhhhhh....... One thing, looking at the OpenZIS ZIT code, it is currently forced to authenticate either by certificate or password! ...
  1. #46

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Ahhhhhhhhh....... One thing, looking at the OpenZIS ZIT code, it is currently forced to authenticate either by certificate or password! I'll switch that off for testing and see what happens. Also it appears the XML requires a \n character between each group of open/close tags for the PHP to explode to help out in the validation process, I'll switch that off as well.
    Last edited by bantonia; 30th April 2012 at 06:25 PM.

  2. #47
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,003
    Thank Post
    60
    Thanked 167 Times in 119 Posts
    Rep Power
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by bantonia View Post
    Hi,

    I created a SIF_Ping message, following the information and example SIF_Message from SIF Implementation Specification (United Kingdom) 1.2 - Messaging and SIF Implementation Specification (United Kingdom) 1.2 - Architecture. I have also created an Agent entry in the OpenZIS server and have used the SIF_SourceId in the message I'm trying to test. Looking at the contents sent through wireshark, all the headers are present and correct and the XML message itself follows the pattern in the example except in three places, the Version and xmlns attributes are swapped round, there is no space in the SIF_Ping (ie <SIF_Ping/>) and there is an additional <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> before the message itself, which is included in the size of the message. However all I get in reply is the XHTML page to log into the server. I could tweek the message text after it has been marshalled but at present it is being sent as is.

    Any clues would be appreciated.

    I'm not using any security at present, there is no data being accessed. The OpenZIS server is set to 1.2.

    Regards
    @bantonia

    If you are looking at creating transport layer messages have a look at

    https://launchpad.net/open-adk-java

    This is an open source develop kit to speed up agent production.

  3. #48

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    I like to develop my own libraries, provides a better understanding of the interfaces in use in the long term. Glutton for punishment! I did download all the files last night for open-adk-java but have not looked at them yet. Is there not a zip file? However, I was able to generate container classes directly from the 1.2 schema using JAXB in NetBeans, fairly painless in the end.

    Anyway, got a working ZIS now and a SIF_Ping Agent. As far as I can tell my download of OpenZIS does not force authentication, the minimum check is comparing SIF_SourceId. Most of my earlier issues stem from the Apache2 vhosts configuration and not knowing the full URL of the ZIS for the SIF_message to be sent to, very frustrating!

  4. #49
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,003
    Thank Post
    60
    Thanked 167 Times in 119 Posts
    Rep Power
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by bantonia View Post
    I like to develop my own libraries, provides a better understanding of the interfaces in use in the long term. Glutton for punishment! I did download all the files last night for open-adk-java but have not looked at them yet. Is there not a zip file? However, I was able to generate container classes directly from the 1.2 schema using JAXB in NetBeans, fairly painless in the end.

    Anyway, got a working ZIS now and a SIF_Ping Agent. As far as I can tell my download of OpenZIS does not force authentication, the minimum check is comparing SIF_SourceId. Most of my earlier issues stem from the Apache2 vhosts configuration and not knowing the full URL of the ZIS for the SIF_message to be sent to, very frustrating!
    I do have the files available in a zip. It would be a single jar and the example files.

    You are a glutton for punishment if you want to write your own libraries to handle SIF messages. I would strongly recommend the adk as the complexity of SIF at the transport layer is going to slow the process down.

    We are looking at making a zones available for developers that will have access to different MIS. Will update when I have more information.

  5. #50

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Thanks for the advice, as I say, I am a glutton for punishment so I do agree with you there. My point is that I wish to use GlassFish in the end to support my Agents as servlets with timing events via JMS to each of the servlets to trigger SIF messaging. I realize there will be methods to process the SIF messages within the library but I do not want to by-pass the doPost() entry points etc created by GlassFish by using a separate library, which I expect are also in there. Also there is a certain amount of satisfaction once something challenging comes together!
    Last edited by bantonia; 1st May 2012 at 11:42 AM.

  6. #51
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,003
    Thank Post
    60
    Thanked 167 Times in 119 Posts
    Rep Power
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by bantonia View Post
    Thanks for the advice, as I say, I am a glutton for punishment so I do agree with you there. My point is that I wish to use GlassFish in the end to support my Agents as servlets with timing events via JMS to each of the servlets to trigger SIF messaging. I realize there will be methods to process the SIF messages within the library but I do not want to by-pass the doPost() entry points etc created by GlassFish by using a separate library, which I expect are also in there. Also there is a certain amount of satisfaction once something challenging comes together!
    One thing to take into account is SIF is asynchronous, you will send a SIF message requesting an object (LearnerPersonal for example) you will need to loop sending SIF_GetMessage to see if the SIF Data object has been returned, then you will be able to react to the data you receive.

    Due to the asynchronous nature you dont know how long it will be before the data is returned.

  7. #52

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    I think Threads should take care of that.

  8. #53
    RonK's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    SIF, open source, and SOAP

    Quote Originally Posted by bantonia View Post
    Skipped a few pages in between as I wanted to get to the SOAP and WSDL like the specification was teasing!

    Overall I agree with the ideals it sounds good but as a programmer I don't particularly want to start from scratch having to interpret accurately most of the 283 pages before I got to the disappointing statement. Currently there are, as far as I know, no open source libraries, certified or otherwise in any programming language to create SIF messages. I tried to install OpenZIS yesterday as a test site and eventually came to a brick wall. There were also comments on GitHub that OpenZIS is no longer developed, how accurate that is I personally do not know, I may be passing on mis-information. I would be very happy to be stand corrected. So with ZIT server not working so nothing to test against, I am reluctant to spend the time and effort to move away from something I already have working via SOAP albeit not to the same ideals as SIF. As for other vendors, everyone seems to be keeping their own developments regarding SIF very close to their chests as it is a commercially viable product. Open specification is one thing but open source is quite another factor which needs to be addressed to enable the proliferation in use of the specification.
    Two points.

    1. SIF & SOAP


    The now SIF Staff-internal infamous quote on page 235 in Appendix C.9 of the SIF Specification came as a shock to me personally (and I'm the SIF CTO) because it was totally outdated and should never have been carried into the latest release. A corrected version is in the SIF v2.6 US release (now out for SIF member review), although we really need to roll back the change into the SIF v2.5 specification. This was a great catch ... many thanks.

    The new text reads:

    C.9 SIF, SOAP and Web Services

    With the addition of Web Service support in the SIF v2.5 specification, it is now possible to write a “pure” SIF web service which:
     Supports a defined SIF Application WSDL interface for receiving asynchronous, Events, Requests and Response methods over the SOAP transport
     Acts as a web client of the a set of ZIS web services, which also support SIF-specified WSDL interfaces over the SOAP transport, and which together encapsulate the ZIS functionality
     Can seamlessly and transparently interoperate with other SIF applications, whether they are web services themselves, or pre-existing SIF v2.x HTTP/S based applications.

    The details of this support are contained in the SIF Global Web Services Implementation Specification volume of this release.


    2. SIF & Open Source

    The former Pearson SIF Agent Developer Kit has been made into an open source project at: (whoops ... I just joined, so I can't post the link directly - do a Google search of "open source SIF ADK)

    While this was originally tied to SIF US v2.4 (and predates the release of the SOAP transport) it is relatively independent of the data model, can be used to allow an application to interoperate with all existing deployed SIF applications, and there is some support provided through the community.

    Hopefully this proves helpful to some folks on this list.

    RonK

  9. Thanks to RonK from:

    penfold_99 (8th May 2012)

  10. #54
    RonK's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    You were unfortunately given the wrong end of an outdated stick. Our bad. The new text (corrected in the release currently out the SIF membership for review reads):

    C.9 SIF and Web Services

    With the addition of Web Service support in the SIF v2.5 specification, it is now possible to write a “pure” SIF web service which:

     Supports a defined SIF Application WSDL interface for receiving asynchronous, Events, Requests and Response methods over the SOAP transport
     Acts as a web client of the a set of ZIS web services, which also support SIF-specified WSDL interfaces over the SOAP transport, and which together encapsulate the ZIS functionality
     Can seamlessly and transparently interoperate with other SIF applications, whether they are web services themselves, or pre-existing SIF v2.x HTTP/S based applications.

    The details of this support are contained in the SIF Global Web Services Implementation Specification volume of this release.

    Sincere apologies for the confusion. This was an outdated paragraph that should have been flagged. Great catch! (and thanks)

  11. Thanks to RonK from:

    penfold_99 (8th May 2012)

  12. #55

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Cheers,

    I will delve into the innards to see what I can find.

    Regards

  13. #56
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,003
    Thank Post
    60
    Thanked 167 Times in 119 Posts
    Rep Power
    69
    @bantonia

    Just so you know Ron is the CTO of the SIF Association.

  14. #57

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by penfold_99 View Post
    @bantonia

    Just so you know Ron is the CTO of the SIF Association.
    Yes, I saw that in his post. Glad to be of service to spot something to add to the errata, annoying I know but another pair of eyes is always useful.

    By the way, I went to look at the SIF UK 1.4 specification and found the WSDL for the SOAP implementation hidden away behind a username/password pair, is this going to always be the case? I have the 2.5 version, which I assume has the definitions for the US Data Objects.

    Regards

  15. #58

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Creating a SIMS report, if you include yourself in 3rd party reporting, shows you can extract the SIF Ref Id fields for a number of items such as student, aspect and class etc but not all entries have a value for that field. Is there a way to kick start the population of these fields? What is the criteria within SIMS .net which will add an entry into the SIF Ref Id field for let's say a student?

  16. #59
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,003
    Thank Post
    60
    Thanked 167 Times in 119 Posts
    Rep Power
    69
    The only way I know of is via sims business object if you want them stored in the sims database or you can create your own and store them in a db and link them to sims.net localid

  17. #60

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    67
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Thought that might be the case, the plan was to extract the data I require and save it to an external database, the only problem is if there are changes then they will only be available on the next update of the intermediate database.

    I did discover last night the "Data Change Tracking Management" settings in SIMS .net, but when enabled the following message began to appear in the application event log.

    The activated proc '[sims].[db_pia_sb_RunScheduledJob]' running on queue 'sims.sims.ScheduledJobQueue' output the following: 'Cannot execute as the database principal because the principal "SIMSScheduledTaskUser" does not exist, this type of principal cannot be impersonated, or you do not have permission.'

    I expect some sort of patch needs to be run as well to enable tracking of any changes, certainly the "SIMSScheduledTaskUser" does not exist.



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. User Management Solution - SIF Agent
    By akhter in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 21st December 2010, 04:17 PM
  2. Who's a SIF Assocation UK Member?
    By penfold_99 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 19th March 2010, 02:40 PM
  3. SIF AGENTS
    By sanjaynayaka in forum Coding
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11th August 2009, 02:19 PM
  4. SIF Agent
    By LCPSWolf in forum Coding
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 7th August 2009, 03:37 PM
  5. SIF Pricing
    By Roger08 in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20th March 2009, 03:34 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •