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MIS Systems Thread, User Defined Groups - Sort by name? in Technical; I can't find a way to sort user defined groups by name in the editor... please somebody tell me it ...
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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    User Defined Groups - Sort by name?

    I can't find a way to sort user defined groups by name in the editor... please somebody tell me it can be done and it isn't a huge FAIL on Capita's part...

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Sorry, it's a FAIL. I think they are stored in the order you add them... or some random db order like sorted on the sql id or something.

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    GREED's Avatar
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    My goodness I asked for this to be changed 2 years ago!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    My goodness I asked for this to be changed 2 years ago!!!
    GRaham, it's clearly not worth spending resources on such a change when Dynamic User Defined groups will solve all these issues. If you'd just wait, i think you'll DISCOVER there'll be no need for ADGs or UDGs soon. What we do for 3 years, while we wait, well that's anybody's guess.

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    Sivadam's Avatar
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    DUDGs will not be replacing standard UDGs. Rather they will be additional. And we'll have 'Discover' available with the Autumn release for Field Trial testing, though some of the functionality has been delayed until the Spring Release!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    DUDGs will not be replacing standard UDGs. Rather they will be additional. And we'll have 'Discover' available with the Autumn release for Field Trial testing, though some of the functionality has been delayed until the Spring Release!
    Surely the only reason to ignore user calls for functionality that should have been present is that it will be rectified by the new system. It may not be a replacement, but i sure as heck hope DUDGs can by 'static' (so to speak) with a condition like 'member of Y9' and that they can be used to replace the cumbersome UDG system. So realistically, for Discover, we're looking at something that might be available, working and patched (!) by the end of this academic year.... Insha'Allah

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    As with any other new functionality, what is actually in the first main release depends on how the Field Trial progresses. Discover is on the Roadmap for general release in Spring. This release will be UAT tested before it is released as well as the Field Trial testing of the Autumn Release!
    It may be that one school/LA finds a major issue with the software when used with their own data - as I did at UAT, testing SLG for Autumn Release, on Friday. It then depends on how quickly the development team can amend any issue that may be found.
    The issue of reconciliation of all types of UDG was raised at the Field Trial Launch meeting - but this is obviously outside the scope of the Discover project!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 4th October 2010 at 09:25 AM.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    So how did UDG make it through field trials without anybody pointing out that in an area of the system specifically for editing lists, you can't sort the list? At the very least, alphanumeric sorting ought to be applied to any list, anywhere in any system automatically; surely that's just common sense? Or was such a counter productive flaw just never deemed important enough to fix? Under no circumstances should a list ever just be a randomly ordered mess.

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    We currently have 67 UDGs on the system. Some are Active and some are not. Although not strictly alphabetical you can click the Title Heading (description) to sort them alphabetically.

    Why all this hassle just for a less than a one-second mouse click?
    Last edited by Sivadam; 4th October 2010 at 12:15 PM.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    We currently have 67 UDGs on the system. Some are Active and some are not. Although not strictly alphabetical you can click the Title Heading to sort them alphabetically.

    Why all this hassle just for a less than a one-second mouse click?
    I'm sorry Sivadam but do you have a function the rest of us are missing? There is no 'Title Heading' in my system, only 'Members', and clicking that does nothing.

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    Sivadam's Avatar
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    Apologies!
    The orignal post refers to sorting UDGs by name and not UDG Memberships by name. It is UDG names that I thought the thread was about!
    I cannot sort the memberships of individual UDGs and I too have contributed to CRs for this over the years!
    Maybe one will bring this up when we go to the first Discover Workshop in a couple of weeks time!

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    So how did UDG make it through field trials without anybody pointing out that in an area of the system specifically for editing lists, you can't sort the list? At the very least, alphanumeric sorting ought to be applied to any list, anywhere in any system automatically; surely that's just common sense? Or was such a counter productive flaw just never deemed important enough to fix? Under no circumstances should a list ever just be a randomly ordered mess.
    I think the default for SQL and dbs in general is that information is not sorted unless explicitly coded to. Data gets put in and out all the time, and the default sort could be anything from the key field on pupil ID to just random position in table based on entry date. You're right though, the implementation sucks. Surely, UDG field trials don't predate SIVADAM do they...? If anyone was going to find it and tell Capita you'd have thought, that was ya man....

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    I think the default for SQL and dbs in general is that information is not sorted unless explicitly coded to. Data gets put in and out all the time, and the default sort could be anything from the key field on pupil ID to just random position in table based on entry date. You're right though, the implementation sucks. Surely, UDG field trials don't predate SIVADAM do they...? If anyone was going to find it and tell Capita you'd have thought, that was ya man....
    Sorry, I should have been more specific, I was talking about the UI to a system rather than the inner workings of the system itself. And even if UDG does predate Sivadam (@Sivadam: is that even possible? You seem to have been using SIMS since the beginning of time!), that must have been some pretty lousy field testing for nobody to pick up on it. That or Capita just didn't see it as worthy of fixing and would rather leave their end users frustrated while they waste their valuable time trying to locate a single name in a randomly ordered list potentially containing hundreds of names...

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    Sivadam's Avatar
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    UDGs do pre-date me.
    Remember I have been a Nova user since it's DOS days. I was dragged kicking and screaming into SIMS when they aquired Nova and Clive Stott!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 4th October 2010 at 02:13 PM.

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Nows a good time to share one of my favorite cartoons

    dilbert sims interface.gif

  16. 2 Thanks to vikpaw:

    Cache (4th October 2010), LosOjos (4th October 2010)



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