+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 7 of 7
MIS Systems Thread, Sims backup regimes in Technical; Im thinking about SIMS here but it may be relavant to other MIS's. We are looking at our backup regime ...
  1. #1

    creese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    -28° 31' 48.89", +28° 25' 37.42" ... if only.
    Posts
    3,253
    Thank Post
    181
    Thanked 375 Times in 304 Posts
    Rep Power
    174

    Sims backup regimes

    Im thinking about SIMS here but it may be relavant to other MIS's.

    We are looking at our backup regime very closely. Also thinking ahead to central hosting next year.

    How long to keep the backups? Restoring anything over a couple of days IMHO is not desirable do to the amount of data input during time after the backup was taken.

    We keep about approx 10 days worth (not weekends) on the secondary disk of the ancient servers. 8 backups on a central backup server.

    What about the summer holiday? My arguement is that as the database is still being backed up each week day backups older than the 6 week holiday would not be necessary.

    There is talk of saving 6 months worth of backups, I see no point in restoring this far back.

    Arguements for and against and suggestions most welcome. I see this as a big problem and both separate and different to the usual system backups.

  2. #2

    tmcd35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    5,665
    Thank Post
    850
    Thanked 893 Times in 738 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    328
    We do a full SIMS db backup daily and keep five days worth on the backup array. Or sims install is on a VM which we back up off-site every term.

  3. #3

    creese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    -28° 31' 48.89", +28° 25' 37.42" ... if only.
    Posts
    3,253
    Thank Post
    181
    Thanked 375 Times in 304 Posts
    Rep Power
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnix View Post
    Well, there are a few things to consider.

    Apart from disaster recovery, the is an archival aspect: There was a recent case where pupil conduct 'disappeared'. You know what I mean. Having records before and after this incident would have been helpful to reinstate the conduct record.


    That's true, but say a record got messed up for whatever reason. You could restore to another database and manually correct the data on the live database referring to the restored database.

    Long breaks are a special case. An error in data might not be discovered until well into the new term.
    I agree to a certain extent, the question though is how far back do you go? Sod's Law says it's always a day before your earliest backup.

    With the 'Missing' conduct, that is not exactly a data loss problem, also how many hours and how many retores would you have to do to get to the 'lost' data?

  4. #4

    creese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    -28° 31' 48.89", +28° 25' 37.42" ... if only.
    Posts
    3,253
    Thank Post
    181
    Thanked 375 Times in 304 Posts
    Rep Power
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnix View Post
    One approach is to determine how much backup storage you have and size your backups to fit.
    .
    I think it's the other way around as this will be new equipment when it goews central.

    Another point with SIMS is no one as any idea of the rate that these backups will expand. We have small school with huge Docstorages and large schools with huge SQLs.

  5. #5

    vikpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    5,969
    Thank Post
    673
    Thanked 1,383 Times in 1,145 Posts
    Rep Power
    350
    I go with keep as much as i can, and prune / archive only as necessary.

    My 3GB mdf, compresses down to 800MB-1GB usually. I take a full backup like that everyday, including weekends as people can be working at any time.

    At the end of last year i pruned down my collection to just 1 per month for the previous year which is fairly reasonable i think.

    My opinion is that we can never restore to a backup unless it's the direst of circumstances and absolutely necessary. Even 1 day of work is immense when you use FMS, admissions, lesson monitor, lesson planner, assessment, etc.

    As jinnantonnix said, the only reason for keeping them is that i would restore to a test box, extract the data i want and then reinject it into the live server. So the purpose of the backups is to recover an old template, marksheet, or other such deletable that someone may lose or corrupt.

    Things to bear in mind are that i believe in the UK you need to keep 5 years worth of attendance data possibly more. It could even be for 5 years after the student leaves, but i may be confusing the different guidelines / laws between data processsing and attendance.

    I'm not sure if you can take an export of the attendance data and that is satisfactory as it's supposed to include marks, date, marker, any changes etc. There is a link to the legislation somewhere, i'm sure you don't need the whole db just for that data.

    Another factor is how usable is your backed up data? You cant restore Spring data onto your Summer set up, so you need to be able to recreate a Spring setup. I keep VMs for this, though haven't needed to use them, and it's a bit of a waste of space really.

    Also post migration to SQL 2008, it's probably not possible to restore those old datasets, so it really is worth thinking, what you would restore a backup for and is it practical to do so.

    Incidents like that where conduct was changed, unfortunately can't really be resolved even with lots of backups as there is no real auditing of the system.

    A reasonable system i think would be to keep a monthly backup, along with 1 a week for the past month, and 1 a day for the past week, usual grandfather strategy basically. Keep that back to the last SIMS upgrade. Keep if possible a backup of the old setup either as a VM or a snapshot and 1 backup to go with that. If space is limited go with differentials but i prefer full where possible.

  6. #6

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,407
    Thank Post
    368
    Thanked 639 Times in 521 Posts
    Rep Power
    158
    Remember it'll stay in the SIMS database, the old attendance stuff. For secondaries it's DOB of pupil + 25ys then shred it. (http://www.rms-gb.org.uk/download/789)

    Restoring SQL2005 onto 2008 is possible, so is upgrade an old database to the latest version, the question is, what introduced the error, the upgrade or a user change.

    I think 2 weeks worth of backups + plus major points in time (end of year, sims release etc) is good enough. Still, just my opinion. More is always better then none.

  7. #7

    vikpaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    5,969
    Thank Post
    673
    Thanked 1,383 Times in 1,145 Posts
    Rep Power
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Remember it'll stay in the SIMS database, the old attendance stuff. For secondaries it's DOB of pupil + 25ys then shred it. (http://www.rms-gb.org.uk/download/789)

    Restoring SQL2005 onto 2008 is possible, so is upgrade an old database to the latest version, the question is, what introduced the error, the upgrade or a user change.

    I think 2 weeks worth of backups + plus major points in time (end of year, sims release etc) is good enough. Still, just my opinion. More is always better then none.
    Thanks, good points. Never looked into converting old data to new, and heard of issues between the SQL versions, so opting for safety.
    Good info in that link, interesting that you need to 'shred' the backups. So if you go with the latest backup includes the whole history then you can't shred, you just have ever increasing backups.

    EDIT: well you can delete old data from the current system as long as it lets you.
    Last edited by vikpaw; 13th September 2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason: typo + edit

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread

Similar Threads

  1. sims backup
    By arthur231283 in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 20th May 2009, 06:45 PM
  2. Sims Backup - Advice
    By pooley in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 27th March 2009, 12:33 PM
  3. SIMS Backup Time
    By ninjabeaver in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 16th January 2009, 10:40 AM
  4. SIMS upgrade backup problem
    By ee01akk in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 29th August 2008, 11:37 AM
  5. SIMS .net backup path
    By Jawloms in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 26th October 2007, 03:17 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •