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MIS Systems Thread, Error Messages !! in Technical; Originally Posted by vikpaw Most schools expect staff to be computer literate and take any appropriate training. They do? Really? ...
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    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    Most schools expect staff to be computer literate and take any appropriate training.
    They do? Really? Your source for this is......?

    My vast part of the world I know, which includes 4 or 5 counties would prove otherwise, getting someone on a FREE course is like getting a monkey to let go of the peanuts in a coconut trap.

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    Sivadam (29th July 2010)

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    Wot a wonderful simile, creese!
    I'll remember that one and use it myself sometime.
    Unless you got copyright on it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    They do? Really? Your source for this is......?

    My vast part of the world I know, which includes 4 or 5 counties would prove otherwise, getting someone on a FREE course is like getting a monkey to let go of the peanuts in a coconut trap.
    If they are expected to use SIMS that implies logging into Windows and having some basic knowledge. They need to be shown how to use SIMS so my training courses always include how to deal with errors. I don't profess that SIMS or any other system will be faultless so i show people what to do when that occurs - to maintain a better image of the software and the IT dept.

    Last i heard, all teachers had to do basic literacy as part of the qualification process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    Wot a wonderful simile, creese!
    I'll remember that one and use it myself sometime.
    Unless you got copyright on it!
    You can have it.

    It explains it perfectly. Heads will not let people out of school for a day, even though the training they receive will save them many days of helpdesk calls and give them the ability to use Sims as fully as it can be used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    If they are expected to use SIMS that implies logging into Windows and having some basic knowledge. They need to be shown how to use SIMS so my training courses always include how to deal with errors. I don't profess that SIMS or any other system will be faultless so i show people what to do when that occurs - to maintain a better image of the software and the IT dept.

    Last i heard, all teachers had to do basic literacy as part of the qualification process.
    I so wish I lived/worked in your world. It must be close to Utopia.

    PS. I wasn't talking about teachers. But they can be just as bad when it comes to IT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    I so wish I lived/worked in your world. It must be close to Utopia.

    PS. I wasn't talking about teachers. But they can be just as bad when it comes to IT.
    It's close to Utopia, plenty of Sun, just no alcohol!

    PS. I wasn't talking about having a day off school, or a paid for training course. At some point to use SIMS everyone needs to be shown how to log in to Windows and run SIMS and then log in to SIMS. This is training, no matter how basic. Yes, it may well be assumed by schools that teachers and / or other staff know how to use a computer / log in, then that is an expectation. When someone in management says you must write your reports in sims, or do attendance in sims, then they expect someone to show you how to do it. It might not be a nice little earner for Capita or local support teams, but it's training nonetheless.

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    I get out quite regularly - mainly on the UAT, Software meetings etc. That is my 'Training'. I can then prepare for the new functionality in advance of the general release and then enable our staff to start using it at our earliest convenience.
    I am our 'SupportDesk' and 95% of what I log with Capita Support is usually Software malfunction - especially after upgrades etc! (I do support quite a few others, unofficially, of course! )

    Somebody asked me what I got out of Capita to compensate for the time I put in and that sums it up in a nutshell (as opposed to coconut shell!)

    Our Staff are thus mostly trained by myself with the help of the school-specific User Guides that I often produce!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 29th July 2010 at 01:51 PM.

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    As Aaron Neville sang, I just "Tell it like it is"

    I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

    All training courses are free to our users, well advertised and we have to cancel a fair few. Likewise with surrounding LAs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnix View Post
    That's crazy.

    All SIMS users in our county must have SIMS training before they use SIMS.
    You'd think wouldn't you, but i know plenty of places where getting out of school is not going to happen. You'd hope each school has 1 SIMS contact if not 'expert' and they provide some basic in house stuff. Especially considering you can't buy modules off Capita without undergoing training.

    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    As Aaron Neville sang, I just "Tell it like it is"

    I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

    All training courses are free to our users, well advertised and we have to cancel a fair few. Likewise with surrounding LAs.
    Yep, it sucks, which is why it would be nice if Capita made it easier. If someone buys Lesson Monitor, who does the compulsory training, or is it all done via LA / LA based support?

    I resorted a long time ago to prepare training videos as a first port of call, for those tasks which are frequently forgotten, and need constant reminding on.
    I thought Capita were supposed to start making videos of the like more accessible so i slowed down my work on them, but there are hardly any available. We get more video thingies on the net which aren't any where near as good.

    EDIT: I mean those Capita Did You Know webcast things.
    Last edited by vikpaw; 29th July 2010 at 01:55 PM. Reason: add

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    ..... Especially considering you can't buy modules off Capita without undergoing training......
    Remember the 'regulation' that you could not move from AM6 to AM7 and from Profiles6 to Profiles7 etc. without undergoing training?
    I know one school that did - and there was no problem about getting the new licence files!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    Yep, it sucks, which is why it would be nice if Capita made it easier. If someone buys Lesson Monitor, who does the compulsory training, or is it all done via LA / LA based support?near as good.
    The blame is not with Capita. Heads think anyone can use computers if you sit someone in front of one, after all they are only typewriters with a TV attached, aren't they?

    As I said I am talking about Primary phase, mostly, Secondaries are much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivadam View Post
    Remember the 'regulation' that you could not move from AM6 to AM7 and from Profiles6 to Profiles7 etc. without undergoing training?
    I know one school that did - and there was no problem about getting the new licence files!
    I don't take training either, i'm trying to talk generally to cover the majority of schools.
    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    The blame is not with Capita. Heads think anyone can use computers if you sit someone in front of one, after all they are only typewriters with a TV attached, aren't they?

    As I said I am talking about Primary phase, mostly, Secondaries are much better.
    Yes but even for primary phase, there must be someone, even if it's the IT tech at the nearest secondary. I know in the UK i was expected to be available to all feeder schools, even though they paid for independent support as well as having access to county level.

    What does a head say when told person X can't use a computer? I would think they ask someone else that can to show them. That is training, on the job training, the way most people in underfunded schools have to learn. It's a shame really.

    That's why i was hoping Capita would step in. The blame is not with them, but they have an ideal opportunity to help out. A day of someone's time making videos would cost each school 4.5p extra each. Easily accessible flash training videos would be better than the conference like webcasts delivered on the web, so devoting their time away from that would mean no cost to schools. Then the schools have easy access to cheap training that involves no time out of school and hopefully ....

    .... less error messages. Or at least more idea what's going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    I don't take training either, i'm trying to talk generally to cover the majority of schools.

    Yes but even for primary phase, there must be someone, even if it's the IT tech at the nearest secondary. I know in the UK i was expected to be available to all feeder schools, even though they paid for independent support as well as having access to county level.

    What does a head say when told person X can't use a computer? I would think they ask someone else that can to show them. That is training, on the job training, the way most people in underfunded schools have to learn. It's a shame really.

    That's why i was hoping Capita would step in. The blame is not with them, but they have an ideal opportunity to help out. A day of someone's time making videos would cost each school 4.5p extra each. Easily accessible flash training videos would be better than the conference like webcasts delivered on the web, so devoting their time away from that would mean no cost to schools. Then the schools have easy access to cheap training that involves no time out of school and hopefully ....

    .... less error messages. Or at least more idea what's going on.
    I love your world, can I join?

    Training by someone else who uses Sims..... The blind leading the blind in an Chinese whispers (no offence to anyone there I hope). Tech from the secondary, what does he/she know about Sims. If they can have in house training they could attend our training, surely, or not?

    Videos? i refer my honorable friend to the answer I just gave.

    Training = time. Time = money. Time = no one to apply the plasters and hand out sick bags, translate to non-english speaking parents etc. etc. As they point out to us, they do not just sit in front of Sims all day, you know.

    The error message could say, touch your nose 3 times, spin on your chair 4 times and say Rumplestiltskin backwards. First helpdek call? Which finger do I use? seriously. The last thing on the interviewers mind is 'Can this person use a computer?'

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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    I love your world, can I join?

    Training by someone else who uses Sims..... The blind leading the blind in an Chinese whispers (no offence to anyone there I hope). Tech from the secondary, what does he/she know about Sims. If they can have in house training they could attend our training, surely, or not?

    Videos? i refer my honorable friend to the answer I just gave.

    Training = time. Time = money. Time = no one to apply the plasters and hand out sick bags, translate to non-english speaking parents etc. etc. As they point out to us, they do not just sit in front of Sims all day, you know.

    The error message could say, touch your nose 3 times, spin on your chair 4 times and say Rumplestiltskin backwards. First helpdek call? Which finger do I use? seriously. The last thing on the interviewers mind is 'Can this person use a computer?'
    I'm not arguing that you are wrong, i'm just discussing what happens outside of your world.

    Yes schools do use the blind-leading-the-blind method. How do they learn in your world where they are not allowed to leave school, and go home bang on the bell?

    Some secondary techs do actually know how to use SIMS. If they don't they have a little more time to learn or are allowed to go on training, as you stated, secondary phase is better.

    In house training can be as simple as 10 mins during lunch or PPA time, even if that's probably illegal and not allowed.

    Capita are producing videos off their own back, they could just be better, and i have provided feedback.

    Interviewers may not ask but they do 'expect' people to be able to use computers. We all know that many cannot do so effectively, but that's not the point here.

    Training happens all the time even if you don't consider it training by your definition. If they call up and ask which finger then that is good in my book. At least you know they have been told they need to do something that might need a finger. When you tell them which one, they will have been trained. Maybe not in your world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    I'm not arguing that you are wrong, i'm just discussing what happens outside of your world.

    Yes schools do use the blind-leading-the-blind method. How do they learn in your world where they are not allowed to leave school, and go home bang on the bell?

    Some secondary techs do actually know how to use SIMS. If they don't they have a little more time to learn or are allowed to go on training, as you stated, secondary phase is better.

    In house training can be as simple as 10 mins during lunch or PPA time, even if that's probably illegal and not allowed.

    Capita are producing videos off their own back, they could just be better, and i have provided feedback.

    Interviewers may not ask but they do 'expect' people to be able to use computers. We all know that many cannot do so effectively, but that's not the point here.

    Training happens all the time even if you don't consider it training by your definition. If they call up and ask which finger then that is good in my book. At least you know they have been told they need to do something that might need a finger. When you tell them which one, they will have been trained. Maybe not in your world.
    I have contact with many other authorities and a lot of them are in the same boat as us. Out of 130 primary phase schools there are a small handful of competant user of Sims. In 20+ secondaries the techs rarely touch Sims, we even upgrade for them.

    There is training and there is training, as far as i am concerned we are qualified, in several ways to train in Sims. Any training from anyone is not an option, it would be like my elder broter teaching me to drive, when that training inclueded jumping red lights and putting your foot down at zebra crossing. I don't want users being taught bad habit and wrong ways of doing thing, what is the point of that? I think that is a silly point you are making When you tell them which one, they will have been trained 'When you tell them which one, they will have been trained'. That would mean I had been trained in major surgery, I am medically trained, but would you want me fitting a pacemaker for you? I've seen it done, 1st hand.

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