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MIS Systems Thread, [SIMS] - Deleting Behaviour in Technical; Hello, long time lurker, first time poster! We have had some behaviour 'mysteriously' disappear and I was wondering if SIMS ...
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    [SIMS] - Deleting Behaviour

    Hello,

    long time lurker, first time poster!

    We have had some behaviour 'mysteriously' disappear and I was wondering if SIMS kept a log of who has deleted information (even if it just writes it to a table somewhere)?

    Andy

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    Sarconia's Avatar
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    As far as I know, SIMS.net does not have an audit trail of changes which users make.

    The only option I can think of, if you know roughly when the data disappeared would be to check the access log in System Manager so at least then you can see who logged on during the period which you're looking at, you can also filter by what permissions a user has so that might help to narrow it down too.

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    Brucy (7th June 2010)

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Brucy/Andy
    this is one of my biggest bugbears.
    All staff have access to edit all behaviour incidents. I teach them to enter the incidents via the register and so avoid the other route that allows them to see all other incidents in edit view.
    Sarconia is right; tracking it is a nightmare. You can bring the incident back, well, you can find it in a backup and recreate it, but it's a huge pain.
    I've never actually looked in the tables for the behaviour info so unsure if there is a log, but it's unlikely.
    All you can do is check access, but you wont easily be able to narrow it down, unless circumstances are such that you caught the removal within a very short time.
    'mysterious' disappearance is very possible when you have hundreds of staff, all with their children attending the school. however, it is way too easy for anyone to delete stuff and i wish they would put a stop to it.
    There have a been a few mentions on SupportNet about adding an Edit(own) permission but nothing came of it.
    Last edited by vikpaw; 8th June 2010 at 10:31 AM. Reason: edit name!

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    Brucy (7th June 2010)

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    It's not looking too likely then!

    Fortunately we have a backup which will be old enough to recover the missing information, as we do daily backups I doubt we'd be able to track it down to a small enough time frame to get any useful info about who might have done it.

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    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Hi
    I too am a first time poster.
    On some systems, teachers have a grace period of several minutes after posting an incident. During this time they can edit or delete the submission. After that time the entry is locked against editing. After all, what the teacher writes makes up the pupil record - no-one would expect teachers to be able to walk into a pastoral managers office, open the filing cabinet, take out a child's record then remove something or alter it? Deleting items from on-line systems amounts to the same thing and it should not be so easy to do it.
    Last edited by vikpaw; 8th June 2010 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Removal of references to specific products. vik: and company

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    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdWhittaker View Post
    Hi
    I too am a first time poster.
    On some systems, teachers have a grace period of several minutes after posting an incident. During this time they can edit or delete the submission. After that time the entry is locked against editing. After all, what the teacher writes makes up the pupil record - no-one would expect teachers to be able to walk into a pastoral managers office, open the filing cabinet, take out a child's record then remove something or alter it? Deleting items from on-line systems amounts to the same thing and it should not be so easy to do it.
    Good sales pitch

    SIMS with proper use of access rights and groups would stop people deleting, anything.
    Last edited by vikpaw; 8th June 2010 at 03:40 PM. Reason: Update quote to reflect edits

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    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    Good sales pitch
    Not really, no product name, no company name, no direction to website - if that was my best sales pitch, I'd be out of business by now ;-)

    As an ex teacher and behaviour manager, I have an interest in how behaviour and rewards info is logged in schools. Also how and to what extent that data is used or analysed by pastoral leaders in school.

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    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdWhittaker View Post
    Not really, no product name, no company name, no direction to website - if that was my best sales pitch, I'd be out of business by now ;-)
    Yes but that doesn't take into account the 'leave 'em guessing', the intrigue theory of advertising.

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Hi Ed, and welcome to our level of cynacism

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    witch's Avatar
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    ..and now stop bickering and return to the original question PLEASE

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    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    ..and now stop bickering and return to the original question PLEASE
    That was answered a while ago. There is no comprehensive log in SIMS but there is the facility to stop people deleting by setting up user groups/rights.

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    Hi Ed, and welcome to our level of cynacism
    Thanks guys, you have now completely derailed the thread.
    I had already reported Ed's post as borderline advertising due to the mention of the company. Usual procedure is for the mods to review and discuss this with input from admin if required.
    If you think that somebody is guilty of unauthorised advertising, or any other suspicious behaviour then please report this through the appropriate method which i know you ALL know how to do.
    Please do not engage the person in a discussion / argument over the matter as others get drawn in, and this thread is a legitimate post from a new member with a problem. One that I have encountered myself and is actually very serious from a professional point of view, depending on the circumstances.
    There is no need to start a playground style bickering session.
    I don't really want to close the thread, but will be selectively editing or deleting posts.

    SIDEBAR: Ed, I will PM you to highlight our rules on advertising so that you aware for the future and can edit your first post yourself if you wish.

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    ..and now stop bickering and return to the original question PLEASE
    beat me to it

    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    That was answered a while ago. There is no comprehensive log in SIMS but there is the facility to stop people deleting by setting up user groups/rights.
    is that now the case Creese? i understood that it was either View All, Edit All, or nothing. So if you want them to record behaviour then they need the right to edit, and thus edit all.

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    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    is that now the case Creese? i understood that it was either View All, Edit All, or nothing. So if you want them to record behaviour then they need the right to edit, and thus edit all.
    My mistake, it is the Report Card that has delete option.

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    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    ...
    There is no need to start a playground style bickering session.
    ...
    sorry witch, i didnt see your post there, no refresh whilst i was typing, and i keep getting called so it took me a while to finish.
    at least we said the same thing! ish :P



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