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MIS Systems Thread, Sims forced upgrade? in Technical; Hi Guys, We have just had some paperwork through from Herts County Council regarding the cessation of support and SIMS ...
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    Sims forced upgrade?

    Hi Guys,

    We have just had some paperwork through from Herts County Council regarding the cessation of support and SIMS on the 2005 platform in Summer 2010 which is forcing us to migrate to 2008, along with a nice bill of 1550 for our troubles.

    The school I work for is pretty sure the last migration was either free or subsidised and are querying this with other schools if you have had to do this?

    Regards,

    Andy Turpie

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    Chunky's Avatar
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    I know SIMS is going to require SQL 2008 from October - maybe this is an advance charge to convert your SQL from 2005 to 2008? (I know the SQL 2008 plus unlimited CAL licence is around 1250)

    Chunks

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    Michael's Avatar
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    Do you mean upgrading from SQL 2005 to SQL 2008?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    Hi Guys,

    We have just had some paperwork through from Herts County Council regarding the cessation of support and SIMS on the 2005 platform in Summer 2010 which is forcing us to migrate to 2008, along with a nice bill of 1550 for our troubles.

    The school I work for is pretty sure the last migration was either free or subsidised and are querying this with other schools if you have had to do this?

    Regards,

    Andy Turpie
    It is free if you use the express package that CApita are delivering. If you are using full SQL then you will need to upgrade and there is a cost associated with this.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    To be honest though unless you're a very small Primary school I would advise against SQL Express as it's limited to 1GB of memory. Sims and FMS will quickly use this much and the rest.

    I think LAs need to review the cost of upgrades of MIS systems as they are getting a little out of control. I find it really interesting that a lot of LAs are adopting Moodle which of course uses MySQL and there are some very big websites out there which use MySQL too, so is MS SQL really that necessary anymore?

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    Lightbulb

    I would go for the full SQL 2008 if you can afford it. Usage of SIMS will only ever go up and you will at some point want parents accessing data out as well...

    Full SQL will cost you, but you may have a schools agreement with Microsoft, or the LA might that covers you, SSAT also have one, so you should get a discounted price. Not sure if your quote is for upgrading software , migrating data or both.

    See attached for reference with regards to Capita's offer to migrate our data.

    Bear in mind, i believe you can do the migration / upgrade yourself, with the whole of the EG community here to support you if things go wrong. Nice if you can try it out on a test server, before going live...
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    To be honest though unless you're a very small Primary school I would advise against SQL Express as it's limited to 1GB of memory. Sims and FMS will quickly use this much and the rest.

    I think LAs need to review the cost of upgrades of MIS systems as they are getting a little out of control. I find it really interesting that a lot of LAs are adopting Moodle which of course uses MySQL and there are some very big websites out there which use MySQL too, so is MS SQL really that necessary anymore?
    Not sure what all the fuss about upgrading is about, and I understand about MySQL and the advantages it gives. My company uses Postgresql and upgrades are just a matter of dump the old data and import into new shiny database server, job done, no cost!
    However, with most modern MIS (all?) so closely tied to MS you never know what the incentives there are to stick with them or indeed the costs of moving away.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    Not sure what all the fuss about upgrading is about
    Primarily it's cost which is the problem. 1500+ every other year is quite expensive and in practice the school sees no advantage. It's all behind the scenes. I suspect eventually LAs probably will stick with Microsoft SQL, but it'll be centrally managed and hosted which should reduce prices when it comes to upgrades.

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    They forced a 2000>2005 and 2000>xp upgrade a while back as well.
    I just wish Capita would adopt a sensible development platform, they are costing schools Millions of pounds in forcing unnecessary MS 'upgrades'. Suppose they adopted a Java (or other, for example) environment - the system would be largely indifferent to the operating system, win7, 2000, 64bit no problem. But hey, better for Crapita to pass the costs onto their customers, and we just lap it up.

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    @andieturpie: I suspect that the cost you have quoted is to perform the installation of SQL2008 and migrate SIMS to the new database. I believe the Westfield cost for Lancashire schools is similar. The additional SQL licensing costs will be on top of that.

    I performed the 2000->2005 SQL upgrade myself and it was relatively painless (once you got past the randomness of some of the Capita tools).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    They forced a 2000>2005 and 2000>xp upgrade a while back as well.
    I just wish Capita would adopt a sensible development platform, they are costing schools Millions of pounds in forcing unnecessary MS 'upgrades'. Suppose they adopted a Java (or other, for example) environment - the system would be largely indifferent to the operating system, win7, 2000, 64bit no problem. But hey, better for Crapita to pass the costs onto their customers, and we just lap it up.
    Why are they costing millions of pounds in upgrades? 99% of schools should be able to get away with using SQL express. As for the actual upgrade - it's a piece of p*ss and anyone who needs to pay any extra to have this work done should, quite frankly, not be in charge of their servers etc...

    MSSQL is a database platform that is backed and well supported by MS - it would be madness to use any other free platform for something as critical as school MIS's
    Last edited by Oops_my_bad; 1st February 2010 at 01:19 PM.

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    Why are they costing millions of pounds in upgrades? 99% of schools should be able to get away with using SQL express. As for the actual upgrade - it's a piece of p*ss and anyone who needs to pay any extra to have this work done should, quite frankly, not be in charge of their servers etc...
    It's not just the MSSQL upgrades, the OS dependency also costs schools. It should be run though an (os independant) browser - and it could have been, had Capita not chosen to pass it's dev costs onto it's customers....

    MSSQL is a database platform that is backed and well supported by MS - it would be madness to use any other free platform for something as critical as school MIS's
    MYSQL is a database platform that is backed and well supported by SUN/Oracle - it would be madness to run a VLE .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oops_my_bad View Post
    MSSQL is a database platform that is backed and well supported by MS - it would be madness to use any other free platform for something as critical as school MIS's
    Just because it's free doesn't mean it's not enterprise ready. I'm pretty sure that facebook has a bigger database then any school MIS, and they're able to use MySQL quite happily. The same goes for youtube and any number of e-commerce sites that are basing their entire business around a MySQL database.

    There are a huge number of websites and companies out there that are using both MySQL and PostgreSQL. If you want a support contract you can also purchase those, and like Cybernerd pointed out MySQL is now backed by one of the largest database manufacturers in the world.
    Last edited by Soulfish; 1st February 2010 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Spelling!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oops_my_bad View Post
    Why are they costing millions of pounds in upgrades? 99% of schools should be able to get away with using SQL express. As for the actual upgrade - it's a piece of p*ss and anyone who needs to pay any extra to have this work done should, quite frankly, not be in charge of their servers etc...

    MSSQL is a database platform that is backed and well supported by MS - it would be madness to use any other free platform for something as critical as school MIS's
    OH dear! only MS can make good software then? Are you aware that the majority of "mission critical" web applications use free software? It seems that only UK schools and their suppliers live in legacy land

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    Looks like it's time to get the iProds out and take a poke at Capita

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