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MIS Systems Thread, School MIS Systems in Technical; Originally Posted by GREED You are adding in inefficiencies, additional connections, additional storage methods, further points of failure. Ok if ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    You are adding in inefficiencies, additional connections, additional storage methods, further points of failure. Ok if you have 1 point of failure for everything then that is just as bad, but with lots of seperate systems all connecting in their own way for their own uses, there are multiple points of failure.
    Multiple parallel points of failure are MUCH better than a single point of failure!

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    Ethain (3rd November 2010)

  3. #122

    GREED's Avatar
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    I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but not sure parallel is the case, with all interacting in their own way with a single database, making the changes they want to make, which will have an effect of other systems also doing the same.

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    With a separate database, there is no requirement to have a single copy of it. Mirror it. No need to have the mirror in an identical RDBMS.

    And if only some of the functionality goes down, at least you have the rest. Many things interfacing with an MIS API will only need occassional access (adding new users), so downtime of the database is no big deal.

    To be honest, worrying about the technology now is a bit early. Before that is done a project needs to have done analysis and design work first, not to mention writing the first batch of test cases (so you know the system meets the requirements before you are coloured by what you have coded). Doing that might influence the technology in ways none of us has thought of yet.

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    localzuk (3rd November 2010)

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    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Am I missing something? Didn't you just describe SIMS? Over 200 companies who make addins, paying between a ton and nothing.
    ?? So let's say I want to be a SIMS technical partner, for example (got your calculator ready?)
    Licence SIMS Software 5000
    Installation on my computer 1000 (plus expenses)
    SIMS SQL new software releases 150 per year
    Partner support 3500 per year
    Access core data + lesson / attendance data 150 per school per year and if I want all the bells and whistles that's 200

    Not exactly free then, is it? I'm talking free, as in 0.00 per school per year
    Small firms can be deterred from entering the market by these charges, thus stifling innovation. Those firms that do get into it simply recoup the cost by increasing the cost to the schools, making the add-ons more expensive than they need be.

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    localzuk (3rd November 2010)

  8. #125

    GREED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdWhittaker View Post
    ?? So let's say I want to be a SIMS technical partner, for example (got your calculator ready?)
    Licence SIMS Software 5000
    Installation on my computer 1000 (plus expenses)
    SIMS SQL new software releases 150 per year
    Partner support 3500 per year
    Access core data + lesson / attendance data 150 per school per year and if I want all the bells and whistles that's 200

    Not exactly free then, is it? I'm talking free, as in 0.00 per school per year
    Small firms can be deterred from entering the market by these charges, thus stifling innovation. Those firms that do get into it simply recoup the cost by increasing the cost to the schools, making the add-ons more expensive than they need be.
    Are those figures accurate?

    That works out more expensive that my last school paid for SIMS as a user?

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    EdWhittaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    Are those figures accurate?

    That works out more expensive that my last school paid for SIMS as a user?
    The 5k is a one-off.
    Check the numbers here http://www.capita-cs.co.uk/SiteColle...agement_10.pdf

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    GREED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdWhittaker View Post
    The 5k is a one-off.
    Check the numbers here http://www.capita-cs.co.uk/SiteColle...agement_10.pdf
    Thank you

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    If you work with the LA, the LA can request the API etc, for a grand total of 0, you can the deploy your work across the LA for a grand total of, 0.

    If you want to then go outside of the LA, it will cost per school (Access core data + lesson / attendance data 150 per school per year or whatever).

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    If you work with the LA, the LA can request the API etc, for a grand total of 0, you can the deploy your work across the LA for a grand total of, 0.

    If you want to then go outside of the LA, it will cost per school (Access core data + lesson / attendance data 150 per school per year or whatever).
    How does this help small companies, as was mentioned above. EdWhittaker was talking about competition, not customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    How does this help small companies, as was mentioned above. EdWhittaker was talking about competition, not customers.
    Small companies would work with a school\LA. Makes sense then them developing a tool out of the school environment when it's for schools.

  14. #131

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Small companies would work with a school\LA. Makes sense then them developing a tool out of the school environment when it's for schools.
    Not sure many schools or LAs would allow that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Not sure many schools or LAs would allow that!
    You would be aiming for schools that have a business arm, such as privates schools that would be asking how much will I make. Hopefully this won't be causing a flood in the market of copy cats.

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    noSQL is a long way off from being able to replace Postgres in the MIS environment
    We got by OK without relational before e.g. I first worked on a bigger, badder, distributed, interoperable MIS system 20 years ago that got by just fine without a proper RDB, and at a glance it fits onto the NoSQL/NoRel category, as apparently does one of IBM's from 1966. That system did eventually go RDB, but not for any pressing technical reasons i.e. the customer's consultants taught them to ask for it on tenders and you had to tick boxes. Naturally performance & resource usage went right through the floor so customers then had to pay for that tickbox by throwing much, much more significant hardware at it.

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    That's a very spurious argument - we got on without a lot of things.. doesn't mean they're not required now. I'd to see how a modern MIS would get by "just fine without a proper RDB" these days...

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scholarpack View Post
    That's a very spurious argument - we got on without a lot of things.. doesn't mean they're not required now. I'd to see how a modern MIS would get by "just fine without a proper RDB" these days...
    Erm. Facebook makes use of Apache Cassandra and Amazon Dynamo. Neither are RDBs... And they have half a billion users.

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