+ Post New Thread
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 91
MIS Systems Thread, SIMS ZIS Agent in Technical; Originally Posted by LawrenceRoyston I would argue that using open source in this type of situation could compromise security. Use ...
  1. #76
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    929
    Thank Post
    56
    Thanked 162 Times in 114 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by LawrenceRoyston View Post
    I would argue that using open source in this type of situation could compromise security. Use of commercial products, when they are sensibly priced is surely the way to go.
    How could open source compromise security? I would be interested to know how you can substantiate that remark?

  2. #77

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    @LawrenceRoyston

    Common discussions about the use of open source systems when dealing with high-risk data connections is that due to the nature of the open code it can be more vulnerable to specific targets rather than the random (but often concerted) attempts to break proprietary systems.

    Six of one ... half a dozen of another. BIND is an open system, yet it suffers from no more problems really that DNS based on AD (in fact the AD based system gets attacked via other means) in proportion to the usage.

    If there is an open source ZIS out there that meets all the criteria, is pulled down and check summed from a validated location, only allows connections from validated and certified SIF Agents ... then what is the issue? If we are going to be fussy then we could say that we don't want to have a windows based ZIS as it is at greater risk of viruses as Windows is targeted more than any other system!

    I am all for the marketplace saying that something is a good option but slamming open source as a solution due to 'security' ... are we delving back to FUD again? I'm happy to pay for SIF Agents as that is something I would expect to do to connect to particular solutions to and from the ZIS, but from ZIS to Moodle ... if someone develops it and it is certifiable then what is the issue?

  3. #78
    OFS
    OFS is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    1
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Hi,

    All these issues with data access are generally down to topology. There are no insurmountable flaws with the SIF specification as it stands.

    Security issues with open source software is an already well debated topic. Everyday security often comes down to software being well written, well maintained and regularly and swiftly updated.

    If you are after a ZIS that conforms to the standards you could look at the open-source OFSZIS OFSZIS.co.uk which supports the full UK & US SIF specification (With both push and pull support).
    OFSZIS also has added security that is transparent to the agents.
    It is still in 'Beta' and requires more testing and a little more work on the logging features but we are not far from having a finished ZIS that should pass the certification. I would like OFSZIS certified as soon a possible but the charges for certification are quite heigh.

    I may post some topology examples on the OFSZIS wiki with diagrams soon as this is indeed a rather confusing area.

    Matt - OFSZIS Developer
    Last edited by OFS; 29th July 2009 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Chance URL to link.

  4. Thanks to OFS from:

    Ian_ICTDS (29th July 2009)

  5. #79
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    929
    Thank Post
    56
    Thanked 162 Times in 114 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    I have got a reply back from SIF UK.

    The main point of the email to them what do see if there was any discount available for open source products and the short answer is no.

    Anyone who develops a SIF Agent or ZIS Server will need to be a SIF UK member so they can have unlimited access to the test suite, this starts at £1250 a year.

    To get a product certified you need to pay a certification fee of ~£1400 plus a renewal fee of £335 if no re-testing is needed but if re-testing is needed the renewal fee is~£600, if you update the product you will need to pay ~£600.

    There is cheaper membership available for

    Government / RBC = £1500
    University = £1000
    LEA = £500
    Colleges = 600
    Schools £235/335 (non voting/voting)

    @OFS (matt) i might be able to offer some sponsorship to help the certification cost (PM Me). After the certification process is completed would you be able to develop a open source Moodle ZIS agent?

  6. #80

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,410
    Thank Post
    368
    Thanked 639 Times in 521 Posts
    Rep Power
    158
    Penfold, how much did Capita charge you for there Business Objects?

  7. #81
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    929
    Thank Post
    56
    Thanked 162 Times in 114 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Penfold, how much did Capita charge you for there Business Objects?
    As I was asking on behalf of a school nothing but they didn't release the full documentation, apparently there is 10gb of documentation but i have yet to see this exists.

    The furtherest i got was logging in through the business objects but that's where the documentation stopped, i couldn't work out how to get at the pupils records without an documentation.

    If i wanted to be a capita partner it would be £5000 and bound by a restricted NDA that's not compatible with open source.

  8. #82

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Groveland
    Posts
    5
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    Back to OpenZIS, I’ve just been reading up on it. Looks like it is designed to only pull data from agents and not push it back. Might be useful for an authority that wants to collect a load of data from schools but not much use for real interoperability.
    Real interoperability is not based on your agents ability to do PULL or PUSH capability. What PUSH can do for you is that it limits the polling of a ZIS for messages. Your Interoperability is not effected.

  9. Thanks to openZIS from:

    Ian_ICTDS (7th August 2009)

  10. #83
    Ian_ICTDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Warwickshire
    Posts
    70
    Thank Post
    11
    Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by openZIS View Post
    Real interoperability is not based on your agents ability to do PULL or PUSH capability. What PUSH can do for you is that it limits the polling of a ZIS for messages. Your Interoperability is not effected.
    Hi,

    Thanks for the clarification. By the way, do you have any experience of OpenZIS been used in the UK?

    Ian.

  11. #84

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Groveland
    Posts
    5
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0

    SIF UK

    Ian - We have had many people contact us in regards to OpenZIS UK - but I don't know of any production sites currently in the UK. - OpenZIS

  12. #85
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    929
    Thank Post
    56
    Thanked 162 Times in 114 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by openZIS View Post
    Real interoperability is not based on your agents ability to do PULL or PUSH capability. What PUSH can do for you is that it limits the polling of a ZIS for messages. Your Interoperability is not effected.
    Push facilitates more than just limiting polling of data, is allows for tighter integration.
    Tasks can be reactive to data change instead of scheduled allowing for real time data viewing.

  13. #86

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,326
    Thank Post
    36
    Thanked 353 Times in 238 Posts
    Rep Power
    79
    Not so!

  14. #87
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    929
    Thank Post
    56
    Thanked 162 Times in 114 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal View Post
    Not so!
    Care to expand?

    If a ZIS only supported Pull and you have the possibility of 10 Agents per school polling every 10 seconds and over 150+ schools, the load the ZIS will be under will be huge, but if the ZIS supported Push the load on the ZIS will be reduced as messages would only be created when data changed.

  15. #88

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,326
    Thank Post
    36
    Thanked 353 Times in 238 Posts
    Rep Power
    79
    Sorry I was far too cryptic. We wouldn’t poll for changes that frequently as we’d be worried about overloading the servers. PX polls every 2 minutes or so which is fine for many uses but it isn’t real-time.

    I’m concerned that some people think they can drive a parental web site using SIF. As SIF is asynchronous performance cannot be guaranteed and screens could take 4 minutes to display. You then have to keep a duplicate data store which is refreshed periodically.

  16. #89
    penfold_99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    929
    Thank Post
    56
    Thanked 162 Times in 114 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal View Post
    Sorry I was far too cryptic. We wouldn’t poll for changes that frequently as we’d be worried about overloading the servers. PX polls every 2 minutes or so which is fine for many uses but it isn’t real-time.

    I’m concerned that some people think they can drive a parental web site using SIF. As SIF is asynchronous performance cannot be guaranteed and screens could take 4 minutes to display. You then have to keep a duplicate data store which is refreshed periodically.
    So i could be possible for PX to be waiting for a request for 4 minutes while trying to poll again after 2 minutes of waiting?

  17. #90
    rchutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Washington Crossing
    Posts
    11
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    push and pull

    I wrote an article about this at SIFPlace.com and what happens especially when you start sharing applications between schools at the LA and RBC level. (It's the one on SIF scalability)

    The short of it is that if you had (if I remember correctly) 10 shared "pull mode" applications (in a multi-zone environment) at the RBC level and they polled once a minute, you would have something like 3,000,000 messages an hour going back and forth on your network before you transfer any data.

    Not as much of a big deal when everything is local to a school, but becomes significant when two or more schools start sharing things...

    have a good one

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SIF Agent
    By LCPSWolf in forum Coding
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 7th August 2009, 02:37 PM
  2. ZIS
    By budgester in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 20th May 2009, 01:38 PM
  3. Abit IP-95 Mobo with Realtek Boot Agent
    By comedydave in forum Hardware
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 13th March 2008, 12:21 PM
  4. Login Script/Launch Agent
    By saundersmatt in forum Mac
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22nd January 2008, 12:29 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •