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MIS Systems Thread, SIMS ZIS Agent in Technical; Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS Back to OpenZIS, Iíve just been reading up on it. Looks like it is designed to ...
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    penfold_99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    Back to OpenZIS, Iíve just been reading up on it. Looks like it is designed to only pull data from agents and not push it back. Might be useful for an authority that wants to collect a load of data from schools but not much use for real interoperability.
    On the face of it this could be a big problem, but one way in a standard why is a start. There is OpenSADK to allow people to interface with the SIF/ZIS.

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    This all started with a concern about cost. I’ve never seen how open source actually works out cheaper. I could spend a huge amount of hours finding a “free” open source ZIS and then more hours setting it up. Then set up and train a team to support it. I’m sure that this would end up costing more than the £5,000 Capita charge to do it all for me.

    This is the same reason I’m reluctant to start using Linux. By the time we’ve paid for consultancy and trained everyone up I probably could have paid for 10 years of Microsoft stuff at education prices.

    Oh, by the way, does anyone know what ZIS you get when you buy Partnership Exchange. Is it a Capita one or have they brought one from America or something?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    This all started with a concern about cost. Iíve never seen how open source actually works out cheaper. I could spend a huge amount of hours finding a ďfreeĒ open source ZIS and then more hours setting it up. Then set up and train a team to support it. Iím sure that this would end up costing more than the £5,000 Capita charge to do it all for me.

    This is the same reason Iím reluctant to start using Linux. By the time weíve paid for consultancy and trained everyone up I probably could have paid for 10 years of Microsoft stuff at education prices.
    Just to chip in on this... So because you're unwilling to provide training for your staff, you'd prefer to just carry on with whatever is fed to you rather than actually looking at the *best* solution, rather than simply the cheapest? Interesting...

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    Well I think Iíve been taken a little out of context there. Iím very willing to train my staff. Iíd just rather train them on something that adds value rather than replacing something we have.

    So say I have two options - 1 - train my team in Microsoft Virtualisation or 2 - train my staff to run a Linux server. Option 1 delivers new useful services to schools, option 2 just changes back end systems and schools see no real benefit.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    Well I think Iíve been taken a little out of context there. Iím very willing to train my staff. Iíd just rather train them on something that adds value rather than replacing something we have.

    So say I have two options - 1 - train my team in Microsoft Virtualisation or 2 - train my staff to run a Linux server. Option 1 delivers new useful services to schools, option 2 just changes back end systems and schools see no real benefit.
    Except lower licensing costs, the ability to do virtualisation using Xen on those linux servers etc...

    If your licensing costs over 10 years were £10k a year (not an unreasonable sum for a decent server farm with CALs etc...), that's £100k. So, you'd have that *on top* of your usual training budget. And training people to use Linux certainly won't eat all that up.

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    Erm, I donít actually work in that area but I donít think our costs are that high. Iím responsible for Interoperability and data exchange. My original point was that I think Partnership Exchange is the *best* solution and well worth the £5000 compared to the other options available. I have a small budget that I use to make the maximum positive impact on our schools. I assure you I take all options very seriously and Linux is not the best solution in my situation.

    Why are people so precious about Linux? Youíd think Iíd insulted your mom or something.

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    So say I have two options - 1 - train my team in Microsoft Virtualisation or 2 - train my staff to run a Linux server. Option 1 delivers new useful services to schools, option 2 just changes back end systems and schools see no real benefit.
    Linux does virtualisation too. There are real benefits to linux other than cost. Our file servers do way more than windows fileservers can do, our email does the same as exchange. It's just a different path same as propriety unixes. long term it costs less, but short term costs are probably higher if you only know the windows way.

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    Why are people so precious about Linux? You’d think I’d insulted your mom or something.
    people get precious when others talk about something they obviously don't understand

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    Erm, I donít actually work in that area but I donít think our costs are that high. Iím responsible for Interoperability and data exchange. My original point was that I think Partnership Exchange is the *best* solution and well worth the £5000 compared to the other options available. I have a small budget that I use to make the maximum positive impact on our schools. I assure you I take all options very seriously and Linux is not the best solution in my situation.

    Why are people so precious about Linux? Youíd think Iíd insulted your mom or something.
    People aren't precious about linux. They're precious about money being wasted on solutions that don't do the job properly by people unwilling to invest in different systems, simply because they're used to Windows. That is what gets people annoyed, especially as it is taxpayers money being used to do that.

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    Again, not my area. I used a bad example. Can we get back to SIF. Itís far more interesting than my management decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    Again, not my area. I used a bad example. Can we get back to SIF. Itís far more interesting than my management decisions.
    Good idea to get back on topic.

    on a side note It might be worth you have a look at the edugeek linux forum http://www.edugeek.net/forums/nix/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_ICTDS View Post
    Again, not my area. I used a bad example. Can we get back to SIF. Itís far more interesting than my management decisions.
    Best not to bring it up in the way you did then...

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    Again, not my area. I used a bad example. Can we get back to SIF. It’s far more interesting than my management decisions.
    yes, good plan. It needs to be interoperable so that it can be used in diverse systems.
    Capita extended SIF without getting the changes ratified, making interoperability difficult.

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    I will never use the word reluctant and Linux in the same sentence ever again.

    What are other authorities doing about SIF. Do you have projects set up or are you just in ‘watching and waiting’ mode?

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    Yes, because it's not finished. SIF is still a work in progress, why spend £££ for it only to be changed, dropped whatever. I'm sure all LA's are looking at it, but it's like, well... the winds blowing from the west, so we do this...

    I think you're missing the point of open source. It builds a community of developers. Why would you have to do any extra training? If Capita ran it, was the main dev, then it would work just like any other Capita thing, if someone wanted to make it work with unix\linux, they could.

    For me, if Capita makes a report that does, I don't know, list of exams results, I would want others to be able to replicate that in there MIS. I don't Capita to have adjust a perfectly good system just for the sake of making a few people happy. If it was an open source thing, then others could feedback.

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