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MIS Systems Thread, SIMS .net and Open Office in Technical; I have created a poll to canvas the view of edugeek users. Should SIMS.net support OpenOffice to the same level ...
  1. #16
    penfold_99's Avatar
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    I have created a poll to canvas the view of edugeek users.

    Should SIMS.net support OpenOffice to the same level as Microsoft Office?

    Please use the link below to vote.

    SIMS.net Support For OpenOffice

  2. #17

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal View Post
    What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.
    If the demand was high enough, would you even bother to support OpenOffice? If so, how high does this demand have to be? (Eg. amount of school requests, Becta recommendations, law change?)

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold_99 View Post
    Hi Phil,

    But apparently your "still investigate" the above post, more like stuffed in the bottom draw under the Microsoft-Capita Contract forcing Capita to use Microsoft technologies while paying lip service to Open Source so the OFT won't investigate a blatant case of State funding of Microsoft by the back door.
    As an occasional visitor to this forum I really appreciate the contributions from suppliers such as John Condon (Bromcom), Jenny Urey (Tasc) and most importantly from my perspective Phil Neal of Capita. If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it - if you don't then retract it. Anyone reading todays announcement around bank charges, and previously the investigation into BSF building contractors will know the OFT are not to be taken lightly.

    I can't help but think that postings of this type will alienate our community from suppliers and Phil will find more important things to do with his time.

    Penfold - put up or shut up.

  4. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyoung View Post
    If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it -
    Capita are using their dominant position in the MIS market to sell MSOffice.Phil 'says' openoffice will work but the capita support and evidence given by penfold show otherwise. In my view this clearly should be reported to OFT.
    Competing products (OpenOffice) are being excluded from schools, as capita are keeping the cost of office solutions artificially high.

  5. #20
    Mr_M_Cox's Avatar
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    Every one needs to stop having a go at Capita.

    The fact are we all have to use microsoft and capita and by making relations between the two and their users worse only leads to us losing out.

    I suggest you keep your inflammatory remarks to yourself.

    Penfold_99 - why start a war when all we want is an answer, go to your room!

  6. #21
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.
    I feel that's a bit of a chicken egg thing i bet if Capita SIMS fully supported OO then allot of schools would be VERY interested in moving, i know for a fact that many schools on here are held into MS Office due to Capita SIMS not functioning completely with OO.

    I'm not having a go at Phil Neal i've found his input usefull many times but i'm calling is as i see it if it wasn't for SIMS we would be mainly OO here with a few MS Office admin clients.


    .
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 16th July 2008 at 04:09 PM.

  7. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_M_Cox View Post
    Every one needs to stop having a go at Capita.

    The fact are we all have to use microsoft and capita and by making relations between the two and their users worse only leads to us losing out.:
    It is supposed to be an open market. The point of the OFT is so that the market remains open. You shouldn't just accept that we have to use it because that will ultimately stifle competition and innovation. Currently schools do not have choice over the MIS because of contracts between LA's and capita - thus any company trying to offer support for openoffice is excluded.
    I do welcome Phil's presence on this forum, but his comments that SIMS does not force the use of MSOffice were quite misleading.

  8. #23

    localzuk's Avatar
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    We are very interested in using open office, but are being held back by the need for Office in SIMS.net. Switching from Office to OpenOffice would save us several thousand pounds a year, and would mean we could probably afford to buy some of the other modules in SIMS.net that we would like to use (for example, SIMS mobile).

    Unless OpenOffice works 100% with SIMS.net, it cannot be claimed to work. You can't say that little bits of it work, because no school uses SIMS.net in that way.

  9. #24
    penfold_99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyoung View Post
    As an occasional visitor to this forum I really appreciate the contributions from suppliers such as John Condon (Bromcom), Jenny Urey (Tasc) and most importantly from my perspective Phil Neal of Capita. If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it - if you don't then retract it. Anyone reading todays announcement around bank charges, and previously the investigation into BSF building contractors will know the OFT are not to be taken lightly.

    I can't help but think that postings of this type will alienate our community from suppliers and Phil will find more important things to do with his time.

    Penfold - put up or shut up.
    Tonyoung,

    If the community view about products is alienating suppliers then the suppliers has a serious problems! The suppliers should not run an hide from criticism they should engage in debate and together with the community create a better product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyoung View Post
    If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it - if you don't then retract it.
    There can argue that there is collusion between Microsoft and Capita.
    As currently Capita solely use Microsoft Technologies.
    • SIMS.net is written in .Net
    • Uses MS SQL Server
    • Uses IIS/MOSS for SIMS.net Learning Gateway
    • Integration with Active Directory
    • Integration with Microsoft Office
    • Only run on Windows Platform


    Because of the use of Microsoft Technologies it stifles competition in several areas Desktop OS, Server OS, Database Software, Word Processing Software etc. Schools are forced to buy into the expensive Microsoft upgrade cycle.

    Some LEA's can also be included in this collusion, as many solely support Microsoft technologies and SIMS.net.

    Becta have reported Microsoft to the OFT (19 October 2007) and so far nothing has happened, Microsoft has been reported to the EU Commission and fined but there practises still continue.

    You could argue under EU law Microsoft should be excluded from all public tenders as they have been fined. In theory schools should be band from purchasing Microsoft software, but due to a loop hole they aren't.

    Microsoft has gagged Becta from publishing the details of the three-year megadeal it agreed with Microsoft in April.

    Microsoft gags UK schools - The INQUIRER

    Even thou as part of the tender clause was the information could be release under a FOI request.

    If there was an agreement between Capita and Microsoft, Microsoft would do every thing in it's power to keep it confidential and Capita would be bound not to say anything if it wanted to.

  10. Thanks to penfold_99 from:

    webman (16th July 2008)

  11. #25
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    You could argue under EU law Microsoft should be excluded from all public tenders as they have been fined.
    I would like to see MS forced to play on a level field excluding them would be counter productive and anti competitive and i can only imagine the headach if schools suddenly couldn't buy their products and had to move to an alternative platform overnight.

  12. #26
    penfold_99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    I would like to see MS forced to play on a level field excluding them would be counter productive and anti competitive and i can only imagine the headach if schools suddenly couldn't buy their products and had to move to an alternative platform overnight.
    If there isn't a worthy deterant for Microsoft, they will continue to abuse there market position and they will build in the cost of the fines into every product sold in the EU.

    The wouldn't be any reason for schools to stop using Office overnight just they wont be able to purchase new copies.

    A ban would only work if it was 2 years or greater and that is never going to happen.

    The question is how to get microsoft to play a level field? It's currently sloped so much in there favour any restriction would have to be in place for what 5+, 10+ years so every thing else can catch up.

  13. #27
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    As always it's really down to us, consumer pressure really is the only way to get to companies. These companies are obligated by law to make their shareholders money, if the current approach stops working then they will change.

  14. #28
    penfold_99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    As always it's really down to us, consumer pressure really is the only way to get to companies. These companies are obligated by law to make their shareholders money, if the current approach stops working then they will change.
    Have you cast you vote?

    SIMS.net Support For OpenOffice

    Hopefully if enough people vote capita might sit up and take notice!

  15. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold_99 View Post
    Have you cast you vote?

    SIMS.net Support For OpenOffice

    Hopefully if enough people vote capita might sit up and take notice!
    Penfold what constitutes enough people ?

  16. #30
    penfold_99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyoung View Post
    Penfold what constitutes enough people ?
    I have asked phil neal to quantify this.

    Quote Originally Posted by penfold_99 View Post
    Phil,

    What would you constitute as High/Medium demand? No. of schools requesting it? etc

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