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MIS Systems Thread, SIMS Registers and Fire Drills in Technical; Hi all, We are looking to get the teachers to be using SIMS themsleves to take the registers in the ...
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    SIMS Registers and Fire Drills

    Hi all,

    We are looking to get the teachers to be using SIMS themsleves to take the registers in the mornings and afternoons come September.

    For this they would obviously need their laptops and an internet connection. However, say in the event of a fire or fire drill everyone meets at the assembly point which is outside and there is no internet connection outside so they would not be able to take the registers.

    Does anyone have an idea of how we can overcome this? Would it simply be a case of printing whos in and whos not daily so that we have a paper copy?

    Many thanks,

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    GREED's Avatar
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    Have you looked at Groupcall Emerge (or similar) that has been doing this for years? It takes an offline copy of the data so internet connection is not needed.

    For balance, there are other products that can do essentially the same. You really don't want to be in the paper printout routine, it only take one time for printer to jam/out of ink/ forget to do it... Plus think of the waste!

    I'm not sure but possibly the new SIMS teacher app might be able to do this (if not, @PhilNeal should make it happen!)

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    cdunn93 (14th July 2014)

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    i think most schools ive been in just write down on a wipe board the number of kids in class 4c (or whatever) and take that out with them

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    Talk to your fire service - almost certainly they will say that they will ignore anything you say!

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    GREED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal View Post
    Talk to your fire service - almost certainly they will say that they will ignore anything you say!
    Hope that isn't a suggestion to not bother having a fire register at all... :/

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    creese's Avatar
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    This is a very old chestnut.

    I spoke to the Chief Fire Officer here many years ago. His advise is what Phil said, 'we will ignore anything you say, a child may have slipped in without being noticed. A child may have said they were going but not cleared the building.' He said his men would not ever risk the fact that an administritive error would result in them not rescuing a child... or member of staff. They would systematically sweep the building regardless.

    By all means take a register, print it with a super speed printer, that is not in the room on fire, whatever you want. It will only serve to make the school feel good.

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    GREED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    This is a very old chestnut.

    I spoke to the Chief Fire Officer here many years ago. His advise is what Phil said, 'we will ignore anything you say, a child may have slipped in without being noticed. A child may have said they were going but not cleared the building.' He said his men would not ever risk the fact that an administritive error would result in them not rescuing a child... or member of staff. They would systematically sweep the building regardless.

    By all means take a register, print it with a super speed printer, that is not in the room on fire, whatever you want. It will only serve to make the school feel good.
    My point still stands... are we saying don't bother with a fire register? Or more appropriately will anyone actually take a stand on that?

    This isn't about making the firefighter's lives easier (as it doesn't), but about school procedure. About what can be done in certain situations. I will admit I don't know the guidelines, but if fire is reported in building a, child is believed to be in building b, and fire service is delayed, is the guidance to leave the child and not re-enter the building? What about very small children, or disabled?

    I don't know, but I don't believe any school would commit to saying 'we won't bother having a fire register because it is not useful'...

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    Are you opposed to talking to the fire service?

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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    By all means take a register, print it with a super speed printer, that is not in the room on fire, whatever you want. It will only serve to make the school feel good.
    Not sure how standing next to highly flammable toner in a fire would make me feel good!!


    @GREED - the advise is not to overthink it and go out and spend £££ on a solution that isn't really needed. It's great if you can access your MIS over 3G on your phone, but don't rely on it, signals drop out and I've yet to see a solution that is 100% proof. Best advise is to print form registers (termly) then have the kids line up by form group and the form tutor accounts for their tutor group. You then have reception with the sign in\out book and the attendance officer has the printed the absence list (as they normally handwrite notes as they work through it). Any technical solution will have it's problems - thats why most of us are employeed and why this site exists!! Problems happen and it normally happens at the worse possible time. The key is to keep it simple - and like @creese and @PhilNeal have said, the fire crew will ignore anything you say so its more a question of giving teachers lists to tick off for their own peace of mine more then anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    My point still stands... are we saying don't bother with a fire register? Or more appropriately will anyone actually take a stand on that?

    This isn't about making the firefighter's lives easier (as it doesn't), but about school procedure. About what can be done in certain situations. I will admit I don't know the guidelines, but if fire is reported in building a, child is believed to be in building b, and fire service is delayed, is the guidance to leave the child and not re-enter the building? What about very small children, or disabled?

    I don't know, but I don't believe any school would commit to saying 'we won't bother having a fire register because it is not useful'...
    Why would the fire service be delayed? A call would be made as soon as a fire was suspected. What is wrong with the existing register, provided it is safe to print, which it shouldn't be. as soon as the alarm sounds, leave all belongings and safely exit the building, do not stop. A building should never be re-entered, human nature may dictate otherwise, but school procedure should be:
    Suspect a fire, sound alarm, vacate, ring 999, assemble as instructed, enter building only when it is confirmed to be safe.

    Entering a building could make the Fire Service job twice as difficult.

    Just as with an oxygen mask in-flight, making sure you are safe is the first priority. Only then can you help others.
    Last edited by creese; 14th July 2014 at 11:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal View Post
    Are you opposed to talking to the fire service?
    Not in the slightest, but still missing the point it isn't just a list for the fire service. This is a list to potentially enable you to act or be aware of a situation.

    Yes I agree Matt don't buy a solution just for this one thing but if it is included in a solution you have already then great.

    And yet no one has responded to the question: should there be a list, given the points made...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    And yet no one has responded to the question: should there be a list, given the points made...?
    No. I don't see how you could ever be certain that it was accurate, my point with the fire register. Too much room for error, too much movement within and in and out of the school. No system is fail-safe.

    A facetious recommendation? Tag the kids and staff. But as we all know, that doesn't work.

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    GREED (14th July 2014)

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    I think for @cdunn93 case, the advise would be for teachers to have a current class list and the keep it simple. You must have something already in place and the question would be why are you changing it? Is the change being pushed by technology or process? I personally think your looking at changing something that is prob fine as it is and doesn't need to change.
    @GREED - I think we're going off topic, we're having the real-time debate again like with parental reporting!

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    My head is rather keen for the school to be up to date with technology and to come away from paper registers as she deems them as a bit old fashioned. I agree that they work perfectly fine but by the teachers marking in pupils themselves it takes some workload off of our admin staff as well as they then don't have to type in the marks for the whole school. We are currently trialing it with one of our classes and it is working very well with very little to no errors as admin staff only enter in unauthorised absentees, illnesses or appointments.

    The only problem that I found with doing it this way is obviously the fire register. I agree that the fire service will probably take no notice and sweep the building regardless just to make sure in the event of a fire but it is school procedure to have a fire register.

    Didn't mean to cause a full on debate either only wanted to know if anyone had a solution!!!! haha

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    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdunn93 View Post

    Didn't mean to cause a full on debate either only wanted to know if anyone had a solution!!!! haha
    Debate is good.

    Are you a Primary or Secondary? Have you considered Lesson Monitor?

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