MIS Systems Thread, Progress 8 Measure in Technical; Originally Posted by tombry yeah my former line manager will be happy that he'll be able to step through it ...
1. Originally Posted by tombry
yeah my former line manager will be happy that he'll be able to step through it now instead of just having a locked template

good thing he did this this morning, as he's pointed out I'm not doubling maths - which for some reason I just ignored.

he is also contending that I have to divide by 10, not 8, as Maths and English are doubled - which confuses me, what's the point of doubling them then?
They count double in the sense that they count as two subjects, hence the need to divide by 10. It means that the score is weighted towards the English and Maths results. As to the point well it is DFE/Gove driving all of this and it defies most logical systems.

2. ## Thanks to number34 from:

tombry (5th March 2014)

3. The Attainment 8 score is really an indication of an "average" grade across this suite of subjects. The idea is to actually express this as a grade (so B+, C- etc) rather than as a point score so it is more accessible/understandable for parents. It's quite nice to set this up as a grade set and teachers also seem to like it. Similarly Progress8 will be expressed as the average number of grades above or below the predicted Attainment8

As others state the reason for doubling English and Maths is so that this average grade is weighted towards English & Maths to retain their status as crucial subjects while avoiding the hit or miss nature of the C+ measure.

Dividing by 10 in this sense makes sense, since you are looking for an average grade across these 10. Dividing by 8 would just inflate everything.

4. This can do strange things to your templates and results. Aspects can get swapped over inside of templates as well as results. This was one of the issues that LA's faced when Capita ended support for their old primary/secondary training DB's.

5. Originally Posted by tombry
@davidpott

Set yourself up a new gradeset using the p8 points, aspects to hold them, and a mark sheet to copypasta the grades from one to another, take about an hour or so, but you'll need it soon enough
Good idea about setting up new gradeset. Excuse my ignorance but how would you copy & paste grades that use a gradeset A*-G with values 58-16 into an aspect with a gradeset 1-8 with values 1-8? There must be a logical sequence with intermediate steps but I'm getting into a tangled headache thinking about it.

Oh, just looked at tombry's aspects & gradeset - use A*-G, not 8-1. OK, can do that! Thanks

6. Hi,

C =5
C+ = erm... 5.333333333333333
B- = 5.66666666666666
B = 6

regards

Gaz

7. I have gone with the current expected progress, so

6.x = A
5.x = B
4.x = C
3.x = D
2.x or lower = E

8. Originally Posted by gazskeltz
Hi,

C =5
C+ = erm... 5.333333333333333
B- = 5.66666666666666
B = 6

regards

Gaz
We don't use fine grades, but I would think that along with sublevels going away, you'd have a hard time using fine grades in a 1 point system, and it would totally break the easy way of seeing VA that I think the A8/P8 scores are supposed to show.

9. I'm all for using decimals and SIMS gradesets will allow decimalisation of the Grade Value.
Previously i've gone for a 5,5.3,5.7 to represent 5a,5b,5c type NC levels. You could do the same for the new points and B+,B,B- etc.

We even went as far as to have very fine grades, so instead of 5a,5b, using NC levels down to 5.1,5.2,5.3 etc and using the same for the points values.
It was really useful to make a full gradeset like this, down to the negative values as well, so you can do maths with the grades.

10. There is one issues, Sublevels are for the overall level for English and Maths, from what I could find fine grades are only made from the Exam so there may be a difference in marks used there (not by much hopefully but it is possible)

11. Originally Posted by tombry
@davidpott

Set yourself up a new gradeset using the p8 points, aspects to hold them, and a mark sheet to copypasta the grades from one to another, take about an hour or so, but you'll need it soon enough
Hi, I have set up new gradeset, please can anyone advise on how to set up a marksheet to copy / convert the A*-G grades into the 1 - 8 grades?

12. One way would be to use a VALUE formula to get the value of the A*-G grade and then use a MARKS TO GRADES formula to convert this value to the new grade, assuming that they both had the same values. If they didn't have the same values you might still be able to manipulate the values to get what you want.

The other alternative is to create a Lookup grid which can convert them directly, but these are a bit fiddlier to set up initially if you have never used them before (use 24 month steps and age range between 10/00 and 20/00 and apply the same grade lookup for each age)

Third option - export the marksheet to excel and use excel to convert the grades and then re-import the sheet with the new grades included.

There are probably other options that I may have missed which might be quicker.

13. I still went with letter grades, as the first group with the 1-8 point totals will still be getting letter grades, just the values are different - so all I had to do was add my estimate/target columns to my new sheet and copypasta the marks across.

If you want to give them the numbers, then I suppose Ecclesbury's solution is the way to go - but I'd export to Excel, replace the letters with numbers, and then save that as an XML file and re-import it right back in as opposed to fiddling around with a marksheet

14. Indeed, if you have exactly the same Grades, with different values, you can just use an EQUALS formula to copy the grades across and the values

15. Thank you Ecclesbury and Tombry, so in 2016 grades will still be reported as A*-G but have different point score values? I've probably read the answer somewhere already but my head will only retain a little at each sitting! Must read the Progress 8 technical stuff all over again!

16. Originally Posted by Tash
Thank you Ecclesbury and Tombry, so in 2016 grades will still be reported as A*-G but have different point score values? I've probably read the answer somewhere already but my head will only retain a little at each sitting! Must read the Progress 8 technical stuff all over again!
Hi, I'm not sure either - but it's easier for testing purposes to still keep A*-G as proved above

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