+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 46
MIS Systems Thread, SIMS Learning about SQL and Writing basic Scripts in Technical; This forum and the photo program has given me an idea to design a program for teachers to view exam ...
  1. #31

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    172
    Thank Post
    42
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    29
    This forum and the photo program has given me an idea to design a program for teachers to view exam timetable eventually I want to use it to search and produce Student Timetable using exam entries data from SIMS. I know it sounds quite simple and I could do one up for the whole school on word/SIMS but i want something interactive and also a chance of developing something. I am hoping that by doing this my job can develop further and something I can put on my CV in the future.

    I intially wanted to develop it using vba in excel but thought that over time I want to be able to develop it further and further into something more complex and not sure vba in excel is the best way to approach this.

    Any ideas of what programming language I should use. Ideally a language that is not difficult to learn as a beginner with online/youtube tutorials and something in which I can develop the program further as I am more able to program.

    Any ideas will be appreciated

  2. #32

    LosOjos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    5,768
    Thank Post
    1,510
    Thanked 1,294 Times in 884 Posts
    Rep Power
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I would certainly be asking for some SQL experience in a Data Manager and we make use of SQL to query the CMIS database.
    The role of School DM is such a new one that it varies wildly from school to school. I personally develop in house systems and spend most of my time between that and reporting on student progress/estimates. At the other end of the scale, I know DMs who don't do much more than data input! To be honest, if a job in a school was asking for DQL knowledge, they'd have to be offering a decent wage increase compared to what I'm on - could earn a lot more in the private sector.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I think being cut off from native access to the data would be like losing a hand. I can certainly understand supplier reluctance to have users writing to the database and I can even understand how poor SQL can cause issues (transactional consistency can lead to performance issues) just reading the database. However, the talk is always then of supplier provided API's or reporting engines and I'm the curious as to why SQL is not seen as an appropriate API? It is so fundamental as an API that the suppliers themselves use it when developing the applications.
    I completely agree with you, but in the specific case of SIMS you have to ask yourself if it's worth the risk of creating a huge financial burden for the school in the event that you accidentally drop a table or alter the structure in such a way the SIMS front end stops working and Capita have to repair it for you (why you couldn't just restore from backup is another matter of course...). I'd argue that it almost certainly isn't worth the risk for most SIMS DMs.

    If anyone chooses to access the SQL DB directly, so be it! Just so long as they know the risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisateen View Post
    This forum and the photo program has given me an idea to design a program for teachers to view exam timetable eventually I want to use it to search and produce Student Timetable using exam entries data from SIMS. I know it sounds quite simple and I could do one up for the whole school on word/SIMS but i want something interactive and also a chance of developing something. I am hoping that by doing this my job can develop further and something I can put on my CV in the future.

    I intially wanted to develop it using vba in excel but thought that over time I want to be able to develop it further and further into something more complex and not sure vba in excel is the best way to approach this.

    Any ideas of what programming language I should use. Ideally a language that is not difficult to learn as a beginner with online/youtube tutorials and something in which I can develop the program further as I am more able to program.
    Sounds like an ambitious project - should provide plenty of opportunity for you to develop your programming skills. There's no right or wrong language but in terms of simplicity, use one of the .NET languages. I personally prefer C# and it seems to be growing in popularity in the industry so why not give it a go? The great thing about programming is that once you know the foundations, learning a new language is just semantics (at least, learning it enough to patch something together is! Although it might not be the most optimized code in the world )
    Last edited by LosOjos; 15th October 2013 at 03:31 PM.

  3. #33


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,388
    Thank Post
    301
    Thanked 915 Times in 683 Posts
    Rep Power
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I completely agree with you, but in the specific case of SIMS you have to ask yourself if it's worth the risk of creating a huge financial burden for the school in the event that you accidentally drop a table or alter the structure in such a way the SIMS front end stops working and Capita have to repair it for you (why you couldn't just restore from backup is another matter of course...). I'd argue that it almost certainly isn't worth the risk for most SIMS DMs.
    I think the big risk is inserts and updates where you don't quite manage to maintain the integrity the application layer expects. I'd hope the SIMS support teams would spot a dropped table PDQ and I thought they had automated integrity checking at the level of the schema structure. But unpicking a bad update could take a while - which would be a bummer at consultancy rates. Sometimes the way suppliers tell it though, you would think THEY had never made a mistake or pushed poorly performing code out the door!

  4. #34

    LosOjos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    5,768
    Thank Post
    1,510
    Thanked 1,294 Times in 884 Posts
    Rep Power
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Sometimes the way suppliers tell it though, you would think THEY had never made a mistake or pushed poorly performing code out the door!
    Yeah, it's not like SIMS has ever gone wrong!

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    172
    Thank Post
    42
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    The role of School DM is such a new one that it varies wildly from school to school. I personally develop in house systems and spend most of my time between that and reporting on student progress/estimates. At the other end of the scale, I know DMs who don't do much more than data input! To be honest, if a job in a school was asking for DQL knowledge, they'd have to be offering a decent wage increase compared to what I'm on - could earn a lot more in the private sector.



    I completely agree with you, but in the specific case of SIMS you have to ask yourself if it's worth the risk of creating a huge financial burden for the school in the event that you accidentally drop a table or alter the structure in such a way the SIMS front end stops working and Capita have to repair it for you (why you couldn't just restore from backup is another matter of course...). I'd argue that it almost certainly isn't worth the risk for most SIMS DMs.

    If anyone chooses to access the SQL DB directly, so be it! Just so long as they know the risk.



    Sounds like an ambitious project - should provide plenty of opportunity for you to develop your programming skills. There's no right or wrong language but in terms of simplicity, use one of the .NET languages. I personally prefer C# and it seems to be growing in popularity in the industry so why not give it a go? The great thing about programming is that once you know the foundations, learning a new language is just semantics (at least, learning it enough to patch something together is! Although it might not be the most optimized code in the world )
    C# it is then. Thanks for the advice you've been so helpful.

    In terms of Data Managers having SQL skills I'm not really surprised especially when you come to a forum like this and find out many of us data managers are developing all sorts of inhouse systems. When a data manager has such a skill and decide to leave schools then think they should ask for that skill from their replacement.

    However the jobs I have seen them is for are paying £40k in London which is not bad at all in this economy

  6. #36

    LosOjos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    5,768
    Thank Post
    1,510
    Thanked 1,294 Times in 884 Posts
    Rep Power
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisateen View Post
    However the jobs I have seen them is for are paying £40k in London which is not bad at all in this economy
    Yeah for that money I'd definitely want more than a data input-er DM jobs around here are all sub £25k - if they insisted on SQL knowledge for that, I think they're be lucky to find anyone! I develop systems for a similar reason you plan to - career development. I'm currently studying towards a degree in Software Design with the OU so I figure if I have a few solid, working systems developed when I finish it should make finding a job that bit easier.

    Plus I find coding much more interesting than the other aspects of my job so I'll find any excuse to do a bit!

  7. #37
    CAM
    CAM is offline

    CAM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Reigate Area, Surrey
    Posts
    4,416
    Thank Post
    882
    Thanked 416 Times in 316 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61
    Rep Power
    328
    Thanks for the CommandReporter advice LosOjos. Had a play with it just now and it worked (seems easier exporting to CSV then XML though!).

    Quick note for Powershell users, wrap your parameter strings in single quote and CommandReporter.exe in double quote. Also launch it with the following syntax:

    Code:
    & ".\CommandReporter.exe"

  8. #38

    dhicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Knightsbridge
    Posts
    5,770
    Thank Post
    1,308
    Thanked 804 Times in 698 Posts
    Rep Power
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisateen View Post
    I'm starting to doubt whether I should continue as a data manager but the fact I had a 2.2 degree, will have to do a Masters (which costs £9k) plus I will have to take a salary cut to break into the industry is making me question if i should change careers.
    A "bootcamp" style course might be more suitible for you - 12 weeks of tuition, and you come out at the end with a bunch of coding experience, a couple of completed projects to use in a portfolio and an introduction to some interesting companies at a startup fair:

    Makers Academy

    That particular company runs courses about the same cost as a Masters - if you don't have £7,000 or whatever to spend I'd stick with the think-of-a-useful-program-and-figure-out-how-to-write-it option.

  9. #39

    LosOjos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    5,768
    Thank Post
    1,510
    Thanked 1,294 Times in 884 Posts
    Rep Power
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    Thanks for the CommandReporter advice LosOjos. Had a play with it just now and it worked (seems easier exporting to CSV then XML though!).
    No problem, it's a very handy tool to have at your disposal.

    As for CSV vs. XML, it all depends on what you want to do with it. If you're simply pulling data out then yeah, CSV is much easier to read! However, most of the work I do with CR is to pull data in to another system - that's where XML is extremely useful, as you can pull specific bits of data straight from it using XPath queries and quickly parse it in to whatever format you need for your program.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    172
    Thank Post
    42
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    No problem, it's a very handy tool to have at your disposal.

    As for CSV vs. XML, it all depends on what you want to do with it. If you're simply pulling data out then yeah, CSV is much easier to read! However, most of the work I do with CR is to pull data in to another system - that's where XML is extremely useful, as you can pull specific bits of data straight from it using XPath queries and quickly parse it in to whatever format you need for your program.
    Thanks to your advice I sat down yesterday and learnt with videos from youanoinow to extract data from a database onto the programme that I am using. This will be so useful as all I need to do is extract data from SIMS import it into my system and do what I need to do with it I'm gonna try to learn how to do it with all sorts of files including csv, xlm, sql e.t.c

    Another question how to do roll out your system to staff members once you have created your system. The reason I am asking is because at our school our IT is outsourced to different companies the main people being RM. The guy from RM who works on our school site has mentioned possible issues with security when running an exe file. I was also hoping to have Visual Express installed on our server assuming that as the school teaches GCSE & A Level computing they will have something installed and maybe even pushing it I can get Visual Studio c# if the students learn another language. However apparntly installing it is a security issue due to people being able to code an execute thier own programme which I understand but then wonder that if they teach computing how on earth do they teach it then??????

  11. #41

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Bradford, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    12
    Thank Post
    8
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    It's good to know i'm not the only one who has dreamt of seeing SIMs elusive SQL code. I get frustrated when SIMs doesn't act like I expect, and because we used mainly SQL in my old industry job it is almost a reflex reaction to see what is actually happening behind the scenes.

    SQL management studio sounds like a good place to start for better interrogation... how do I get it? Is it just the case that our in house IT technicians are guarding it fiercely, and I just need to bribe them? and can I run it on my laptop?!

  12. #42


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,388
    Thank Post
    301
    Thanked 915 Times in 683 Posts
    Rep Power
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by StevieTSS View Post
    SQL management studio sounds like a good place to start for better interrogation... how do I get it? Is it just the case that our in house IT technicians are guarding it fiercely, and I just need to bribe them? and can I run it on my laptop?!
    You can run it on any machine but you will need appropriate permissions to connect to the server and the database - that SHOULD be fiercely guarded! ISTR SIMS users are controlled by the application (but my info may be out of date), so just because you can access SIMS doesn't mean you can access the database.

  13. Thanks to pcstru from:

    StevieTSS (17th October 2013)

  14. #43

    LosOjos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    5,768
    Thank Post
    1,510
    Thanked 1,294 Times in 884 Posts
    Rep Power
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisateen View Post
    Another question how to do roll out your system to staff members once you have created your system.
    You really need to speak to your IT team, tell them what you're doing and go from there. Every school is different, I suspect if your support is outsourced you may well need support from higher up to give RM the go ahead to let you start pushing EXE's out to users.

    As for Installing Visual Studio on the network - why? You only need it on the machine you're developing on, not the whole network. Visual Studio Express is free and should be ample to start developing: Visual Studio Express 2012 Products | Microsoft Visual Studio

    As for how I personally roll out programs - anything that needs rolling out school wide (such as assessment tracking) is developed in ASP.NET/C# which all staff have access to via the Intranet. Most stuff I develop I'm the sole user of so they exist solely on my HDD. There are a few systems that are needed by various teams that I install locally on their machines - I have the advantage of having an IT team who trust me to do that!

  15. #44

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,522
    Thank Post
    374
    Thanked 675 Times in 550 Posts
    Rep Power
    166
    Going slightly off topic - @dhicks (and co) You might want to look at https://www.edx.org - they offer free courses. Harvard has a VERY good course CS50, basically they were finding students were coming to them without a basic understanding of programming - CS50 is a intro course to programming, it uses virtual Linux machines, so you don't have to worry about licensing, students hacking the system or just configuring it with the right version of this and that so it works.
    https://www.edx.org/course/harvard-u...r-science/1022

    Few guys here have completed it and I was surprised how good it was.

  16. 5 Thanks to matt40k:

    CAM (17th October 2013), chrisateen (17th October 2013), dhicks (17th October 2013), LosOjos (18th October 2013), pcstru (17th October 2013)

  17. #45
    CAM
    CAM is offline

    CAM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Reigate Area, Surrey
    Posts
    4,416
    Thank Post
    882
    Thanked 416 Times in 316 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61
    Rep Power
    328
    Thanks Matt! Passing that on to the HOD for IT.



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [SIMS] SIMS Learning gateway (attendance registers) and iPads
    By Oops_my_bad in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 6th January 2014, 09:30 PM
  2. Learning Platform wysiwyg and javascript document.write method
    By duxbuz in forum Virtual Learning Platforms
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19th October 2010, 03:59 PM
  3. SIMS Learning gateway and data security
    By reggiep in forum MIS Systems
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 5th May 2009, 11:55 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20th August 2007, 12:22 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •