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MIS Systems Thread, Is this correct? in Technical; Originally Posted by box_l You have just listed the four options I suggested a couple of weeks ago. The reason ...
  1. #16

    twin--turbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by box_l View Post
    You have just listed the four options I suggested a couple of weeks ago.

    The reason I have been asking these questions is that:

    1) Pay them for a year or more.... Possible but expensive as the data needs to be accessible for up to 7 years
    2) Get capita to do the work again porting all data Possible but expensive but not AS expensive
    3) take the database tables and build your own front end to the data you need I don't think I have the time
    4) forget the old data. Possible but the data needs to be accessible for up to 7 years

    None of these options is particularly appealing, just a case of working out which is least worst, if that makes sense.

    BoX

    Ask the LEA,

    When we became an academy we technicaly had NO RIGHT to our predecessor data, we archived the data and gave it to them on CD. That covered that base. Technicaly thought we had a Virtual machine which was switched off with the old MIS lying dormant in case we needed it. Good job realy as the LEA lost the CD!

    if you need the data then 1 or 2 is the only real option... But as your already in battle for 2013 option 2 would require reconstruction of new data from the new year..

    So option 1 is probbaly more favourable.


    You could get a second DIRTY SIMS build with all the previous data but capita will charge you for that too, last experince was that it would cost the same as the running live build.

    Building your own front end to the data will cost more than the other options..

    Rob

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    If it stores SEN data that you don't have archived elswhere, it's a lot more than 7 years.

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin--turbo View Post
    When we became an academy we technicaly had NO RIGHT to our predecessor data, we archived the data and gave it to them on CD.
    The DfE changed their minds on that one, they used to say you had to request exactly what you wanted from the LA under the DPA if you were a type 1 (labour) academy - along with a new MIS, but now they said you can keep it as it was too costly to schools to create a new MIS on top of all the other costs.

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    I can confirm that in many cases new academies are allowed to keep the old school's data. However census returns have to be adjusted to exclude data from the previous school.

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    There are only a few tables you need for accessing the basic data you need. Just write a script to pull it into excel or access and go from there. You can do that straight into the db without much fuss. If those aren't skills you have, any DBA worth their salt will be able to work it out without any issues. That would be a lot cheaper, even if you had to pay for it doing, than the license fee to retain the software.
    Just to clear up, Advanced Business Solutions purchased Serco Learning from Serco in a large acquisition on Jan 1st 2013. With that, all of the contracts migrated. Serco generally used to just let you continue with whatever version you had at the time, for read only purposes. Advanced don't take that view, and it was never part of the contract previously, the software is licensed on a yearly basis.

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    rpwillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin--turbo View Post
    Four choices realy.

    1) Pay them for a year or more....
    2) Get capita to do the work again porting all data
    3) take the database tables and build your own front end to the data you need
    4) forget the old data.

    Rob
    You could also look at 3rd party online reporting systems to see if they could fit your needs. Just for internal use by staff in this case of course.

  7. #22
    APC
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    I understand that Serco (Now Advanced Learning) have always provided their non-cloud (why would Phil Neal even mention cloud?) Facility MIS has always been provided to individual schools on a 'lease' type agreement. Am I also correct in thinking that SIMS is also licenced on exactly the same basis for schools / acadamies buying direct from Capita and not under an LA agreement?

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    APC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcs808 View Post
    We are moving from Facility to SIMS and have been told that we can keep one computer connected to Facility but eportal will go.
    In this instance a licence for Facility would be required - easier I would have thought to move all of the data into SIMS - that way no additional software is required

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    @APC it was my mistake - I didn't read the first post carefully enough and just assumed it was a cloud issue. This is rather different and strange!

  10. #25

    vikpaw's Avatar
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    You mention the school was concluding the contract with SERCO, was this before the takeover? is there any finalisation documentation, maybe something is covered there, even if in spirit not in writing, but chances are ACS won't have to honour that.
    I would have thought that the data is yours, and they have a responsibility to give it to you in a reasonable format, especially if you are leaving. The problem is, if you've left it too late....

  11. #26
    box_l's Avatar
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    We do have copies of the exported data from when the contract ended and it looks like we still have the full exports that were given to the SIMS migration team.

    We are going to ask them to import ALL the data into a "dirty" database so we still have access.
    This will cost the school, but no where near as much as a license to use facility.
    @sdashwood

    Relatively small?, 60% of the normal license fee!
    Not everyone wants their data in the "cloud", I don't. It belongs on the schools site IMHO.
    I don't make many threads on here, but when I do, I appreciate comments like your first and second paragraphs. You provided useful information.
    The third paragraph is a sales pitch and not required.

    Thanks to everyone for their input.

    BoX

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    Another thought occurred to me, rather than using Access or Excel, just download and use SSRS. Report builder 3 would be a good option on the back of that too.

    And Steve, it's nice to finally see some formal presence on here, I tried to get us some senior input for years, beginning to wonder if I should have stayed just to see this! Be careful with the sales pitch though, the mods can get grumpy quickly; the reputation of the company in terms of customer service and communication will massively improve if there's some positive input on the boards.

    Mic

  13. #28

    matt40k's Avatar
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    Can't blame the guy, must be losing schools faster then pens from the store cupboard. I think EduGeek's tagline should be "beating corporate MD's with common sense since 2005", that's the second MIS MD to take a beating today.
    @michael2k6 - be awesome if we had a common report tool with a proper data warehouse across multiple MIS solutions, make switching MIS dead simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by box_l View Post
    We do have copies of the exported data from when the contract ended and it looks like we still have the full exports that were given to the SIMS migration team.
    The CMIS database schema is relatively open and easy enough to navigate and at that level it is your data, so I can't see they can demand you delete the MSSQL database. Still, time to have a look at the licence - especially since we are on a countdown to potentially replacing CMIS.

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    Disclaimer: we're an MIS supplier. OK, so out of interest, how would you guys envisage the switching process works? Should you be allowed to keep historical data free of charge?

    Clearly in a cloud based solution this has cost implications for the supplier so a charge would not be unwarranted. We've never yet had a school leave us, but if/when that day does happen, we'd probably offer a package whereby we'd host the customers data indefinitely for a small annual charge if they wanted to go down that route. In our contracts, it states THE SCHOOL OWNS THE DATA. With non cloud based solutions I don't know why a supplier would charge you, since they are no longer going to be providing support or updates and it costs them nothing for the old software to simply sit there. To my mind that's just profiteering, but hey, I would say that.

    Aside from those solutions, a good reporting engine would allow for most data to be exported. You might lose a bit of data that you simply can't get out, but transcribing that manually would be a lot cheaper than paying your old supplier for years to come. That's the route I suggest for the OP. A good DBA would get that data out no problem in a couple of weeks into a format you can probably make do with for historical data. Another option might be to ask the new supplier to migrate all your historical data into your new system. Some suppliers offer that service and some don't. Whilst more expensive, at least you'd have it all in one place.

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