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MIS Systems Thread, SIMS & MSI in Technical; There are also a huge number of secondary schools that haven't asked us to make any change to the deployment ...
  1. #46

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    There are also a huge number of secondary schools that haven't asked us to make any change to the deployment method. Our own site is quiet on this matter (there's a challange)

    However .. I have said that I have asked the team to find a way to make this possible. Two deployment methods = x2 testing so this is a serious commitment.

  2. #47
    meastaugh1's Avatar
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    re: SIMS & MSI

    If you moved your EXE installers to MSI, you could have both. For unmanaged environments, use simsload.exe to detect whether an upgrade is required, then launch the appropriate MSI. This would not require any additional testing and would enable admins to push out upgrades in a managed system environment.

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    I'll pass that on to someone that would understand!

    Thanks

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal
    Yes, we have a huge number of primary schools that do not have system managers. The current upgrade system doesn't require any network knowledge what so ever (after it has been set up).
    That's a red herring. Primary schools are supported by their LEA/RBC 'IT support' centre/team/guy. However it is unlikely that a lot of them have a AD domain based network. More likely they have a peer to peer type network.

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal

    However .. I have said that I have asked the team to find a way to make this possible. Two deployment methods = x2 testing so this is a serious commitment.
    If I've interpreted meastaugh1's post correctly.

    If a MSI install was made possible it should be easy enough to write a little EXE to check the MSI version number then either exit or kick off an install.
    My thinking is that any account that has the rights to do an EXE install anyway would also have rights to do an MSI.

    The advantages of doing it that way ( presuming it is possible, I may have missed something ) is that the work to do the EXE kicking off the MSI would only have to be done once, not each time there was an upgrade, and shouldn't be too much work.

  6. #51

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    That's a red herring. Primary schools are supported by their LEA/RBC 'IT support' centre/team/guy. However it is unlikely that a lot of them have a AD domain based network. More likely they have a peer to peer type network.
    ...until you become a managed service. In our area the plans seem to be for a central server farm with AD across the whole LEA, from primary to further education. You'll be given a username and password in reception and carry that through your time in education.

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Beeswax is absolutely right that LA wide AD are being created.

    If my memory servers me correctly, we did try using MSI a few years ago and found that staff had insufficient rights in schools to apply them.

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    meastaugh1's Avatar
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    re: SIMS & MSI

    They don't have permission to run the current update either, hence simsperm.bat.

    I'm sure someone will correct me, but couldn't you set it in local policy (for unmanaged computers) to always install windows installer with elevated (system) rights?

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Yes, it is possible to allow Windows Installer to have elevated rights. If the MSI were digitally signed, then this would be very easy.

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Quote Originally Posted by User3204
    @psydii:

    I'd also like to stop the installer apparently installing the manuals... as nobody here ever reads them... I don't even know where they are stored locally.
    This is a very good idea. There aren't even any links I can find to them. If people want something they go to the SIMS manager or if they are desperate to read the manual they could go to him/us for a copy.

    Along with that, can anyone explain the hundreds of files that are skipped in the installation, even in a brand new clean install?!

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    Heebeejeebee's Avatar
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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey
    Quote Originally Posted by User3204
    @psydii:

    I'd also like to stop the installer apparently installing the manuals... as nobody here ever reads them... I don't even know where they are stored locally.
    This is a very good idea. There aren't even any links I can find to them. If people want something they go to the SIMS manager or if they are desperate to read the manual they could go to him/us for a copy.

    Along with that, can anyone explain the hundreds of files that are skipped in the installation, even in a brand new clean install?!
    I concur.

    Why read a manual when we're at the end of the phone :cry: .

    Some of the manual links don't work on our system anyway.

    At most you need a central, server based store of manuals that gets updated if needed.

    HBJB

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    The main reason we would like an msi is purely for new machine builds, if it is a choice between installing all software automatically during the os install or doing things manually i would rather save the time and let the msi do all the work. Especially when we have 100 odd staff machines to deploy to

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    If you look through any Microsoft software, there is usually a setup.exe (to run), but the installer will just then run the MSI.

    Alternatiely it is possible, to wrap an .EXE around an .MSI, as this is what Sun do to their Java clients, to deploy the java updates, the instructions given are run the setup EXE file and the MSI and associated files are then dumped in the Temp folder - which I then deploy using the AD Group Policies.

    If you were to do something similar, then people with the know-how could do this, but no-one else would ever know.


    I too find life easier deploying installations..... I have deployed 15 different apps onto a new image this PM, whilst I wasn't even in the same room, I'd hate to have to upgrade Encarta/Office any other way.

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    I'm worried that this topic is being quietly forgotten. Please do register your desire for a SIMS MSI installer here. Thanks!

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    re: SIMS & MSI

    Maybe Phil could give us an update on what Capita are doing with this at the moment?

    Having recently applied the August update, I'm reminded how much of a nightmare the client SOLUS can be.

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