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Mac Thread, Apple Leadership Event 19th October : Questions please in Technical; Ok, out of that 28mil devices (which is impressive, nobody is denying this), how many were educational establishments using these ...
  1. #31

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Ok, out of that 28mil devices (which is impressive, nobody is denying this), how many were educational establishments using these devices for teaching children? I know of 4 schools that uses these devices for educational purposes, and out of those 3 of the schools want to send them back because of the lack of Apple support for educational software and because companies still view windows devices as the way forward - be it Windows XP - Windows 7 on tablets or laptops or PCs (more of these devices around than tablets).

    Sorry for derailing the thread.

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    They're educational software companies. Some of them only evolve when they're bought out after going under due to head-in-the-sand "but surely everyone uses RealPlayer?" attitudes.

    Adapt or die doesn't appear to be in their lexicon.
    RealPlayer, what a good example. It was like someone turning off a light the speed at which the industry stopped using Real products to create/stream live content. The problem with Flash content is that so much of it is now effectivly in archive. it's not just YouTube, but international news sites that followed quite big stories years back, had the live content stored in Flash, and it sort of makes a mute point about the internet being able to hold information for future generations to study. Perhaps it will make the industry a bit more aware of the need to be able to carry legacy baggage more readily, or make tools available for providers/end users to still access this content.

  3. #33

    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Don't forget about Microsoft! Windows 8 ARM tablets/Metro IE won't play Flash content either, so it's not just Apple.
    It will, just not in metro mode, a tablet could easily switch to none metro mode, use flash then switch back unlike iOS.

  4. #34

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    It will, just not in metro mode, a tablet could easily switch to none metro mode, use flash then switch back unlike iOS.
    As far as I was aware the ARM based W8 devices did not support desktop mode so would rely on a thrid party browser under metro for support of Flash, thankfully with the native c++ support under metro porting of other browsers will probably be comparibly quick and open up this possibility. Well, assuming chrome or another browser that includes flash support.

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    Yeah, I've been using Chrome on the RM Slate running W8. The lack of Flash simply breaks too many sites so an alternate browser is a must. (I don't like IE 10 on the desktop).

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    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    As far as I was aware the ARM based W8 devices did not support desktop mode so would rely on a thrid party browser under metro for support of Flash, thankfully with the native c++ support under metro porting of other browsers will probably be comparibly quick and open up this possibility. Well, assuming chrome or another browser that includes flash support.
    This suggests ARM mode will:
    Microsoft: Desktop apps will run on Windows 8 on ARM | ZDNet
    But you will need an ARM build of flash but Adobe made one for Droid already.

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  8. #37

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    This suggests ARM mode will:
    Microsoft: Desktop apps will run on Windows 8 on ARM | ZDNet
    But you will need an ARM build of flash but Adobe made one for Droid already.
    Good, that does make the platform more attractive asl ong as they don't have the App store locking on desktop apps on the ARM platform.

  9. #38

    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Good, that does make the platform more attractive asl ong as they don't have the App store locking on desktop apps on the ARM platform.
    As far as I am aware desktop apps dont require store delivery but anything that hooks into metro interface will, or at least sideloading.

  10. #39

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    It's nice that they're running these events but given their weak answers to your questions and their previous actions with confusing licence models, stopping support of "real" server hardware, poor business networking support and tools in OSX 10.7 and laughable management tools for iOS device in educational scenarios, I can only regard Apple as being indifferent to the point of being malicious to the cause of education here in the UK.

    I still love my personal apple devices for my own use, sure, but there's no way I can personally continue to recommend them for use in education. And that makes me sad given how much work I've put into trying to get them accepted in the past.

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    It can be frustrating that Apple seems to stop development of products and services at the gates of the enterprise world, but perhaps they have reason too. They have made their fortune from the development of mainly consumer products, and given the huge outlay to develop and support the enterprise market perhaps they feel that it is simply not worth it and will hope third parties and end users will develop their own solutions. Unfortunately with their current crop of Apple products that are increasing pushed - or sliding in via the back door - into the corporate and education sphere many of the restrictions faced by enterprise/education customers are not able to be bypassed via this route. If they are not careful, Microsoft and W8 tablets will steal the market from underneath them in the coming years.

    As Steve Jobs once said, ‘The problem with Microsoft is that they have no taste’. That is possibly true, however, they really do understand what enterprise customers want and require at the end of the day. Apple have still to grasp this.

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    As pointed out in the article ... the drive is about personal devices, controlled by the user. Once I get part 2 done it will explore this in more detail ... I can honestly say I did hassle about the lack of Flash support and did have a go at them about saying HTML5 is the standard when it is not ratified ... but they have models which can work, it just needs a fair bit of change from those involved. More later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    It can be frustrating that Apple seems to stop development of products and services at the gates of the enterprise world, but perhaps they have reason too. They have made their fortune from the development of mainly consumer products, and given the huge outlay to develop and support the enterprise market perhaps they feel that it is simply not worth it and will hope third parties and end users will develop their own solutions.
    It's certainly their choice to do, and I can see why they do it. They've not had much success in enterprise... though their success in consumer areas vs. their success in enterprise might lead me to suggest that they've got the all the evidence they need that you get out of something what you put into it.

    It's also my choice to say that I now can no longer recommend their equipment be purchased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    Unfortunately with their current crop of Apple products that are increasing pushed - or sliding in via the back door - into the corporate and education sphere many of the restrictions faced by enterprise/education customers are not able to be bypassed via this route. If they are not careful, Microsoft and W8 tablets will steal the market from underneath them in the coming years.

    As Steve Jobs once said, ‘The problem with Microsoft is that they have no taste’. That is possibly true, however, they really do understand what enterprise customers want and require at the end of the day. Apple have still to grasp this.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    As pointed out in the article ... the drive is about personal devices, controlled by the user. Once I get part 2 done it will explore this in more detail ... I can honestly say I did hassle about the lack of Flash support and did have a go at them about saying HTML5 is the standard when it is not ratified ... but they have models which can work, it just needs a fair bit of change from those involved. More later.
    I certainly agree with the drive to make resources more accessible to people's personal devices. Whether ipads, android tablets or something else entirely. I'm sick of all the vendors trying to enforce lockouts in areas where there's no good reason or justification to do so.
    Last edited by Roberto; 21st October 2011 at 02:04 PM.

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto View Post
    I certainly agree with the drive to make resources more accessible to people's personal devices. Whether ipads, android tablets or something else entirely. I'm sick of all the vendors trying to enforce lockouts in areas where there's no good reason or justification to do so.
    In the workshop they were quite keen to stress that you should always consider your audience and make resources available in the broadest way possible. They were keen to stress that web access is probably the most efficient way of doing this, but that using iOS devices had some particular techniques ...

  15. #44

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Web access is great, but again it falls on the fact that Apple refuse to support flash so most of the content becomes unusable again.

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Web access is great, but again it falls on the fact that Apple refuse to support flash so most of the content becomes unusable again.
    And again I go back to Apple's response about why they are not going with Flash. We might not like it, we might think it is pointless but the question has been asked and the response given. To kkeep talking about it on here is not going to get us anywhere, being honest. Either we put pressure on content providers to change or we put pressure on Apple. Arguing the merits of their answer is like an over-used pencil ... pointless.

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