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Mac Thread, Virtual Desktop from Win7 to MAC OSX Server in Technical; We want to give a couple of our Win7 Users a virtual MAC desktop session on our Mac OSX server ...
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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    Virtual Desktop from Win7 to MAC OSX Server

    We want to give a couple of our Win7 Users a virtual MAC desktop session on our Mac OSX server so they can run bloomin Keynote.

    Is this possible with macosx server or is a 3rd party software required (if its even possible)?

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    There is a VNC server built right in to OSX which you can get to through the desktop shareing bit Remote Control Leopard with TightVNC you can use tightVNC or ultraVNC, I think that you have to tweak the settings on the client a little though as it does not support enhanced security. I have it working at another school for a user that needed to play with their Mac from a real computer at the other end of the school.

    This does not help if you need multiple users working it at once as there is no RDP type solution that I am aware of for Apple and no legal virtualisation solution so you may need the facility to connect to another one. There is also the security issues as I am unsure if you can force a logout so that the users are logged in as a client instead of just dropping into whoevers session is currently active.

    The other thing to consider is video performance, it is actually quite good from what I could see as the default screen shareing settings do punnish the network with an uncompressed stream but it is still VNC so is generally a bit crap with no special offloading for video.

    There are probably other solutions but I do know that I have the above working.

    I'm trying to connect to Leopard from my XP machine at work and I haven't been
    able to get it working thus far. Here's what I've tried:

    1) Enabled
    Screen Sharing from the Sharing system panel.
    2) Checked to make sure Screen
    Sharing is listed as being allowed to go through the Firewall.
    3) Downloaded
    both the free version of RealVNC and UltraVNC.

    RealVNC 4.1.2 gives me the
    following error: "No matching security types"

    UltraVNC 1.04 gives me the
    error: "Incompatible Version"

    Has anyone had any success connecting via
    VNC (w/o ARD installed) from XP? If so, what did they do and what XP VNC
    client?


    I believe the security error you're seeing is actually just a
    bug and might be owing to your screen resolution. Here are settings which worked
    for me (NOTE: I state they worked--this is technically correct, but the
    performance was so hideous that you might find the term
    debatible)

    [Options]
    UseLocalCursor=0
    UseDesktopResize=1
    FullScreen=1
    FullColour=1
    LowColourLevel=1
    PreferredEncoding=ZRLE
    AutoSelect=1
    Shared=0
    SendPtrEvents=1
    SendKeyEvents=1
    SendCutText=1
    AcceptCutText=1
    DisableWinKeys=1
    Emulate3=0
    PointerEventInterval=0
    Monitor=
    MenuKey=F8
    AutoReconnect=1
    http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/.../t-380251.html
    Last edited by SYNACK; 12th August 2011 at 07:25 AM.

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    RabbieBurns (14th August 2011)

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    Zero mac experience here but googling for "mac os terminal server" gave me the following:





    Mac Terminal Server - Mac Remote Desktop - Virtualization - RDP - OS X Terminal Services

    Not sure the costings.

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    RabbieBurns (14th August 2011)

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    FN-GM's Avatar
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    no legal virtualisation solution so you may need the facility to connect to another one.
    Vmware ESXi 5 fully supports Mac OSX as a virtual machine, maybe its just around the corner?

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    RabbieBurns (14th August 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    Vmware ESXi 5 fully supports Mac OSX as a virtual machine, maybe its just around the corner?
    Only on Xserve hardware, Vmware proved its possible so its down to Apple to change their EULA/create some sort of licensing agreement to cash in on for the loss of hardware $...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    VMware ESXi 5 fully supports Mac OS X as a virtual machine
    As Nicklec mentioned, you can only do this on Xserve's and with Snow Leopard Server. ESXi v5.0 does check.

    The two major pieces of work VMware did with vSphere 5 that are Apple-specific are:

    1. Coding EFI support, and adding support for the Xserve (and putting the Xserve through the certification process, etc.), and
    2. Adding all necessary support for Mac OS X Server 10.6.x (Snow Leopard) as a guest OS.

    VMware did some additional work to prevent Mac OS X Server from being installed on vSphere 5 unless the underlying hardware is Apple hardware, and to prevent Mac OS X Server guests from being VMotion-ed to non-Apple platforms, etc. It was actually more work for VMware to keep Mac OS X Server restricted to Apple hardware, but they did this additional work to respect Apple's license agreement.

    But then the Xserve was killed, and it was just as much a surprise to VMware as it was to everyone else. (Source)
    In addition to that, the Mac OS X Lion EULA specifically prohibits the use of Lion in remote desktop/VDI-type enviroments.

    2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions

    B. License from Mac App Store. If you obtained a license for the Apple Software from the Mac App Store, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License and as permitted by the Mac App Store Usage Rules set forth in the App Store Terms and Conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/ww/) (“Usage Rules”), you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license:

    (i) to download, install, use and run for personal, non-commercial use, one (1) copy of the Apple Software directly on each Apple-branded computer running Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control;

    (ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, to download, install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software for use either: (a) by a single individual on each of the Mac Computer (s) that you own or control, or (b) by multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or control. For example, a single employee may use the Apple Software on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer, or multiple students may serially use the Apple Software on a single Mac Computer located at a resource center or library; and

    (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software.

    The grant set forth in Section 2B (iii) above does not permit you to use the virtualized copies or instances of the Apple Software in connection with service bureau, time-sharing, terminal sharing or other similar types of services. (Source)

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    As Nicklec mentioned, you can only do this on Xserve's and with Snow Leopard Server. ESXi v5.0 does check.



    In addition to that, the Mac OS X Lion EULA specifically prohibits the use of Lion in remote desktop/VDI-type enviroments.
    Interesting posts all. Thanks..

    @Arthur, we have XServe on an XServer hardware already so theres no point virtualising it just to run it on its own hardware. However, do you know if the same license restraints pertain to the version prior to the L-Ion verison as I Think thats what we have..

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    basically all this fuss boils down to 2 teachers that want to use Keynotes and are kicking up a fuss that they used to have a Mac and now they have a PC and they cant use Keynote any more...

    I personally dont know why we are wasting time / money / resources trying to keep a minority happy but that is not my decision...

    Is there a keynote for windows?

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    morganw's Avatar
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    I don't think there is a native Keynote viewer on Windows but you can use iWork.com to share and display the content on a Windows PC. You could also export Powerpoint files from Keynote but I think they will be flattened and rasterised so you wouldn't be able to edit them afterwards without remaking the slides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    do you know if the same license restraints pertain to the version prior to the Lion version as I think that's what we have...
    Here are the links to the EULAs for 10.6...

    Snow Leopard: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf
    Snow Leopard Server: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/do...nowleopard.pdf

    I think the only way you could do this legally would be to buy several copies of Snow Leopard Server and create a couple of VMs (in Fusion, VirtualBox or Parallels Desktop) on your existing Xserve.

    If they want to use Keynote that badly, they should buy their own Mac's.
    Last edited by Arthur; 13th August 2011 at 06:45 PM.

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    RabbieBurns (14th August 2011)

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    I cant find that line about virtualized / teriminal sharing in the snow leaportd osx doc?

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    Before Lion, Apple only allowed the server versions of Mac OS X 10.5 and 10.6 to be virtualized. Since the only way to run more than one copy of the OS concurrently on the same hardware is through virtualization, it means you have to buy a separate copy of Mac OS X Server for each VM.

    From the Snow Leopard Server EULA...

    2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
    A. Mac OS X Server Software. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install and use one copy of the Mac OS X Server software (the "Mac OS X Server Software") on a single Apple-branded computer. You may also install and use other copies of Mac OS X Server Software on the same Apple-branded computer, provided that you acquire an individual and valid license from Apple for each of these other copies of Mac OS X Server Software.
    VMware Fusion and Parallels Desktop will only allow Mac OS X Server to be virtualized. They both check for the presence of a file which only exists on the server discs.

    VMware Fusion System Requirements...

    Does VMware Fusion support:

    Mac OS X Leopard Server virtual machines?
    Yes, VMware Fusion 3 now supports Mac OS X Leopard and Snow Leopard in a virtual machine.

    Mac OS X (client) virtual machines?
    No, Apple licensing prohibits running Mac OS X client in a virtual machine and VMware Fusion 2 cannot support Mac OS X clients at this time. Contact Apple if you would like to see Mac OS X client officially supported in a virtual machine.
    Parallels Desktop System Requirements...

    Supported Guest Operating Systems

    32-bit
    Mac OS X Leopard Server 10.5.x
    Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server 10.6.x

    64-bit
    Mac OS X Leopard Server 10.5.x
    Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server 10.6.x
    Supported guest OSs for VirtualBox...

    Mac OS X
    Mac OS X Server (Leopard, Snow Leopard)
    Assuming you can still purchase licenses for 10.6 Server, it would cost approx. £155.65 (AU $246.59) per VM just for the OS.
    Last edited by Arthur; 14th August 2011 at 10:30 AM.

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Before Lion, Apple only allowed the server versions of Mac OS X 10.5 and 10.6 to be virtualized. Since the only way to run more than one copy of the OS concurrently on the same hardware is through virtualization, it means you have to buy a separate copy of Mac OS X Server for each VM.

    From the Snow Leopard Server EULA...



    VMware Fusion and Parallels Desktop will only allow Mac OS X Server to be virtualized. They both check for the presence of a file on the install DVD which only exists on the server versions of Mac OS X.

    VMware Fusion System Requirements...



    Parallels Desktop System Requirements...



    Supported guest OSs for VirtualBox...



    Assuming you can still purchase licenses for 10.6 Server, it would cost approx. £155.65 (AU $246.59) per VM just for the OS.
    So like windows server can do 2 remote desktop (plus a local console) by default.. this is just not available in OSX Server?

    Fair enough..

    I dont think purchasing multiple OSX Server licenses just to run keynote is a valid ides. Probably cheaper to pick up an old mac hardware and just give them that...

    Thanks for your help arthur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    So like windows server can do 2 remote desktop (plus a local console) by default.. this is just not available in OS X Server?
    Only in Lion. Perhaps it might be worth asking Apple how they define "terminal sharing" as it seems strange they should include a feature which enables users to login remotely, but then prohibit its use in the EULA?

    In Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, Screen Sharing morphs from a simple VNC remote screen viewer into a multiuser, Fast User Switching Remote Desktop solution similar to Microsoft's Terminal Services.

    In Mac OS X 10.3 Panther, Apple added Fast Users Switching to enable the system to support multiple users to be logged into their own graphical environment concurrently. Prior to that, each user had to log out before another could login to the graphical console. Multiple users could login via SSH, but only with a command line environment.

    In Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple added Screen Sharing, a VNC client and server that enabled a user on one system to authenticate and view the screen of another system.

    Since 2002, Apple had also separately sold Apple Remote Desktop, which allows for remote administration and management. In 2004, ARD switched to VNC, an open protocol that enabled the tool to remotely control not just Macs, but also Windows PCs and other Unix systems with a VNC server installed.

    In Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, the built-in Screen Sharing feature, updated from 1.1.1 to version 1.3, now allows remote users to log into a separate user account from the one that is currently logged in. That means that while one user is logged into a machine, a second user can login to the same machine remotely, seeing their own desktop and user environment.

    Previously, any users who attempted screen sharing with another system could only see a mirror of what was currently on the screen, and would "fight" for mouse and keyboard control of the remote system with that locally logged in user. Now, any user with the credentials to perform screen sharing can log into a Lion system independently of another user who may already be logged in, and continue to work in a separate graphical session parallel to the logged in user.

    After logging in behind a local user on a Lion machine, the remote session depicted both users as being logged in from the Fast User Switching menu. The Lion system only indicated the local user was logged in. However, when the local Lion user attempted to switch users and login as the other user from the Fast User Switching menu, the system experienced a kernel panic, indicating that the feature is still a work in progress and that the new feature likely involves significant changes to how the system handles user logins. (Source)

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Only in Lion. Perhaps it might be worth asking Apple how they define "terminal sharing" as it seems strange they should include a feature which enables users to login remotely, but then prohibit its use in the EULA?
    Interesting. Any idea who to ask.. Is there anyone on here who is a MAC expert (expert i said, not fanboi, so shh shinobi)

    To be honest, from your previous quote about running multiple versions of osx serve on the same hardware, my initial thought process was dual-booting and i never thought of visualization..

    Anyone know what sort of cost might we be looking at to upgrade our OS X Server (purchased within the last 12/18 months) to the latest roaring version?

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