+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15
Mac Thread, Lion so far in Technical; I've been playing with this now for a bit, through Beta 2 and 3, then to GM and I have ...
  1. #1

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595

    Lion so far

    I've been playing with this now for a bit, through Beta 2 and 3, then to GM and I have to say I was disappointed in the install, but happy-ish with the end result.

    I have been using it on a clean build on an external drive and so had not experienced any of the issues involved in an upgrade from a well embedded build of Snow Leopard.

    I had two MacBookPros to upgrade.

    The first is my work machine mainly used with Productivity apps and some semi- and Pro-applications. This does not store any mail, does not store significants amounts of media (video / audio), has a number of encrypted files (TrueCrypt) and a number of VMs on Parallels, VMWare and VirtualBox. This one went through fine apart from TrueCrypt not being happy finding and mounting some of the volumes, Parallels needing a re-install and one of the iPhoto libraries (I have several to swap between) becoming corrupt on first opening.

    I then went for an upgrade on my Home machine. This is also an MBP (now 4 years old) but going strong. It has a largish amount of directly attached storage, for files, for iTunes, for Photos (iPhoto and Aperture), for iMovie and for email ... a heck of a lot of email. I now run across 9 different email accounts, partly due to legacy reasons, but I download all my mail and attachments. I have done this for the last 12 1/2 years and this is reflected in the size of the mail store I have, including having been a member and archivist for a number of mailing lists.

    And so we hit problem number one. I leave external devices attached as there are soft links to some files and folders in place. I do turn off certain things, like AV, etc ... and I did turn off Time Machine too. Unfortunately ... and I don't know why ... Time Machine turned itself back on ... whilst the files were being written and it stopped the restart, crashing out the installer, charting out the backup and hanging the drive. Eventually there was a Kernel Panic. On reboot the internal HD and the HD of the Time Machine device (a Western Digital My Book Studio) were corrupted. The Lion Recovery partition could not fix the Internal volume and threw a fit when trying to talk to the corrupted external drive. I had to use the Snow Leopard Disc to repair the internal volume so it would boot ... but would not proceed with another attempt to upgrade. To repair the WD drive I had to plug it into my MacMini and it took several attempts to get the volume usable. I copied files off onto other drives but I lost my Time Machine snapshots ... which had been running fine for about 6 months (since I had to go to a larger volume).

    I took a TM snapshot onto another external drive, did a wipe of the local drive, installed SL and then ran the upgrade. It didn't like plugging in a TM volume (yet my work one did and was happy to restore files) so I did a fair bit of manual file transfer ... and then I hit the problem of Mail. Apple Mail is improved in many way ... but I liked it as it was, which is why I had kept using it rather than using whatever Mail/calendar/etc app is part of Office for Mac at the time. The upgrade of mail took some time to run (well, the collected Mail folder I transferred was 12.5 gig ... so I expected it). the things that have not worked were the Mail rules, the application of mail settings for accounts (even though I told it to sync the details with MobileMe ... but it looks like the mail setting .. or lack of ... on the work MBP cleared them out!), and then we hit the published problem of it not liking how some Mail providers do POP. It doesn't like 2 of my accounts so I have to use webmail for them for the moment, or use another mail provider to pull in first ... even though I want to keep them separate (long story, but comes down to audit trails mainly).

    And then I find that some NAS and external drives need more updates to work ... Most of mine are WD and the external drives are fine (apart from the knackered Time Machine which has had to have a complete wipe) but the WD NAS I have is not happy and the connection drops out when trying to do any file transfer longer taking longer than 5 mins (which is anything over 200 meg since there is a lot of wireless interference atm and it is causing issues ...)

    So, the things I have yet to do to keep things going ...
    1 - Recreate all my Mail rules ... I had over 100 and it helped me manage my email life.
    2 - Work out why Safari does not always go back to the previous window on the old MBP but is fine on the new one. I have a feeling it is down to the trackpad navigation but will play over the weekend.
    3 - See if there is a way to have the Launchpad on *both* screens. I have 2 screens and run extended desktop as I like *large* screens. a 17" MBP is nice, but having a 27" monitor is better. That is the primary monitor and the MBP screen is secondary. That does not mean I don't want to use the secondary monitor ... I do, especially at work (13" MBP and 27" monitor with the monitor as the secondary display), and want to use both screens ... call me an iOS heretic, but 2xscreens=good!!!!!
    4 - Work out why, on the work machine, after encrypting the full drive, then putting the BootCamp partition in, installing Win7 64-bit does it work fine until I install the Bootcamp tools ... don't have the problem when the drive is not encrypted ... but I get BSoD about 1 min after boot up and cannot find why.
    5 - Spend time to get a different Time Machine backup option, possibly across the network rather than an attached drive.

    So ... my advice before upgrading.

    1 - Backup ... like sunscreen you will regret not having covered yourself.
    2 - Don't just turn of Time Machine but unplug external drives where possible.
    3 - Make sure you read up on the difference in navigation because when you are using the trackpad and suddenly go to LaunchPad, or MissionControl or swap between apps ... you know you are going to click on the wrong thing and lose a loooooong forum post you have been writing (and thank $deity for autosave!)

  2. 3 Thanks to GrumbleDook:

    Dos_Box (24th July 2011), garethedmondson (24th July 2011), nephilim (22nd July 2011)

  3. #2

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    And so the fun continues.

    Apple Mail ... my trusty friend for many years (since 2001 really) and I have lived with your problems. Having to rebuild your index every so often (until V3) to stop you grinding to a halt was a minor issue compared to the problems I had when periodically trying out other options (Thunderbird, Eudora, Entourage, etc) and I have always found you do what I want the best.

    So why, oh why is it that now you have a new database structure and now that you have claimed to have upgrade the mailbox files, why can you not find 98 % of mail emails. The mailboxes (glorified archive folders to be honest) do not show any content, yet when I peep inside then via Finder all the mail is in there.

    Spotlight doesn't want to know you, it doesn't want to find any of the missing files *unless I extract them one by one* and no amount of copying the old files back and trying the import will work.

    So I am left with pulling down Office 2011 for Mac and seeing if that will import all my old emails. If that is happy then I will try to use Mail to import from that ... except that it appears from reading some discussion boards that Mail only wants to import from Entourage, not Outlook 2011! and So I am pulling down Office 2008 for Mac first to try!

    It could be worse. I could have lost 12 1/5 gig of emails. I know they are there ... but you don't want to look at them. I would even offer to move it all to the cloud and just sync folders down ... but I like to keep it all in one place and I hate to think how long it will take to sync the emails up to somewhere!

    And so we continue ...

  4. #3


    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the server room, with the lead pipe.
    Posts
    4,638
    Thank Post
    275
    Thanked 778 Times in 605 Posts
    Rep Power
    223
    Could be worse, it turns out Lion's CIFS client can knock out Celera's that are behind on patches. And since no-one patches their expensive storage without good reason, it's bitten a few people.

    Mac Lion's breath causes Celerra NAS storage to die ? The Register

  5. #4

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    Mail is now sorted ... I tried a few different things and verified them to see if it was just a quirk or not.

    First I imported it all again ... still had the same issue of mail being in the mailboxes (when viewed in Finder) but not showing in Mail.

    I imported them into Entourage 2008 with no problem and was able to bring them into Mail after that ... did that twice with no problems.

    Tried it with Thunderbird and it did not like it at all.

    The mail was also pulled into Outlook 2011 for Mac fine as well, but Mail did not want to import it back in.

    I then had a brain melt moment and deleted the working version I had imported from Entourage ... and dropped the original archive back into the folder. I started up Mail and it started the import again ... and lo and behold, it worked. I tried again ... deleted all mail ... imported it rom the backup into Entourage ... imported from Entourage from Mail ... deleted the new files and dumped the backup in ... started Mail again and it imported it all fine, including accounts and rules.

    This one is beyond me and in the realm of waving chickens now ... I have taken a copy of the logs and will go through when I have more time, but I am now at the point of being happy to have it happy.

    And so we get onto another problem ... file transfer speeds. CIFS and SMB faults are cropping up a lot. Speed of transfer is terrible to my WD NAS box over wireless and not much better over wired. So I have now used an old MacMini (on 10.6) to mount the required SMB volumes and then shared them out as AFP to the Lion machines. The difference in speed is brilliant.

  6. #5

    john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,611
    Thank Post
    1,496
    Thanked 1,051 Times in 920 Posts
    Rep Power
    303
    Sounds like your having a fun time then Tony with your upgraded snow kitty to big aggressive brother. Also sounds like Oracle made this new release or they stole the code for SMB/CIFS from the open storage product range that I have so much "joy" with hehe

  7. #6

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    It is the first time I have had an issue for some time. The thing that has caught me out a little was that I hadn't come across any issues like this with the GM. I have just finished trying the Mail upgrade on the GM and it came through fine ... so no idea why it was not happy on the final release. I'm not going to worry about to too much now ...

    Spotlight is proving to be better than before, but I can still see many people using the alternatives as it is is still missing some tools that some others want. Rather than go through the full list here I am sure folk can find previous posts from @ZeroHour and others explaining why they prefer not to use Spotlight but other tools (usually for pretty understandable reasons).

    On the home machine and using a Magic Mouse gives me some of the gestures I am used to with using the trackpad on the work machine, but not everything. Also, when I hook the work machine up to the keyboard / monitor / mouse at work (on Friday) I found that I already missed some of the gestures. I like a mouse for some apps I use (especially gaming) but for productivity I feel I am going have to go down the Magic Trackpad route. A tad frustrating after finding the Magic Mouse made a world of difference but even if we go down a touch screen route (eventually) I still think a trackpad or rodent is going to be needed.

    I did see a fantastic tweet from Dale Cruse earlier today (which I RTed) saying that to go for a truly mobile experience under Lion he is uninstalling Flash. Having had Flash crash out FF and Safari a few times now I can understand the feeling behind it.

    I have yet to do any significant gaming on Lion yet and won't get a chance to until next weekend (DIY has struck ...) so I would be interested what others find on any graphics heavy packages ... whether Pro apps, video heavy or games ...

    I've yet to fire up Xcode yet either ...

  8. #7

    john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,611
    Thank Post
    1,496
    Thanked 1,051 Times in 920 Posts
    Rep Power
    303
    I've read online a large number of complaints about Adobe software and Lion not playing nicely sounds like the love lost between the pair is carrying on nicely and much wider than just Flash Player. If they don't get there act together it could change the whole industry as currently a lot of the key products have issues on Lion that are not going to be patched, this could push people over to PC for using them

  9. #8

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,935
    Thank Post
    1,341
    Thanked 1,784 Times in 1,107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    595
    Majority of the drive manufacturers are sorting out patches at the moment. WD are working on their NAS issues (which also has had issues for OSes in the past) and I might test it later ... if I feel brave enough or have finished the planned chunk of DIY for today.

    Adobe will patch stuff ... the way they always do so I am not to worried there. John Nack on Adobe : Lion: Known Issues with Adobe products for more details of what is not working fully.

    The removal of Rosetta has been an issue for some people as there are still some key PowerPC programs out there. To some extent this is the 16/32/64-bit argument ... there has to be a time when old stuff is phased out. If you can't do that then you don't upgrade. That is why I still have a working iMac DVSE with OS9 on it to allow me to open some old files.

    I've got a lot of DIY on this week but if I do try anything else I'll keep this thread updated.

  10. #9

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,706
    Thank Post
    906
    Thanked 1,321 Times in 803 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    445
    Having had Lion on the go for a little now there are wireless issues occurring for me when using low signal wifi points. I get errors/dropouts a lot where as SL had no issues in exactly the same place in the room and its happened for enough days now to rule out interference. Also when in Windows 7 I have no wifi issues so the only thing left is a possible driver issue with my macbook pro's wifi card.
    The install time estimate was a farce and it took significantly longer to run and also when it booted for the first time OSX was pretty much dead with grinding none stop for 15-20 minutes due to spotlight reindexing etc and no doubt other things going on. Once I did a reboot though it was a lot better as it had seemed to sort its self out.
    I have encounter quite a few app related issues with app windows disappearing and having to restart the app (not adobe btw, native producers of apple only ware) but no doubt they will eventually get it sorted.
    No issues with flash here as of yet in Chrome so far but chrome does use a custom build so I suspect thats preventing the issues occurring now.
    The one saving grace is its a cheap feature pack at least but I have not really played with all the added stuff so far expect full screen apps which FINALLY exist.... I wish they had added cut and paste to finder as well, fail apple, fail.... but on the whole it seems okay so far and it will be interesting to see how dev's get on with the new api's.

    EDIT: Ironically wifi dropout happened just as I was trying to post this lol. Also for the love of god apple add ntfs write into the OS....
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 25th July 2011 at 04:31 PM.

  11. #10

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    9,763
    Thank Post
    3,273
    Thanked 1,053 Times in 974 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    I've not had any of the above mentioned issues so far but I did use super duper to create a bootable backup of my SL installation.

    1. I do not currently use time machine as have re directed all the important areas to a normal hdd ie home area, documents etc as storage capacity wise I don't have the amount of storage space to allow time machine to run correctly so that is switched off
    2. I am hard wired into my router even though I have wireless so no need to have wireless running or to use wireless.
    3. I have used youtube a lot which afaik relies on flash and have not had it crash any web browser out yet
    4. I only have a magic mouse, no magic trackpad yet ( as much as I would like one )
    5. E-mail wise it is all web based ie gmx, gmail etc, ive never bothered using mail clients whether thunderbird, mail app or whatever so I normally fire up a web browser and do emails that way.

    I think the only thing that imo was not logical nor usable was natural scrolling - I felt like I was meant to be flying a plane not using a computer, up to go down and down to go up, that was quickly disabled.

    Office 2004 didn't install or want to know ( so that must of been a PPC suite / apps etc ) so just got office 2011 which works great

    The issue you had with going back / forwards when web browsing may of been a track pad issue or something else as works great on my magic mouse and not had any issues with it.

    I can't remember the instructions but with SL you could edit a file to add ntfs read / write support for a hard drive.

    Not sure if it works the same or even if it is supported on Lion though

    http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20090913140023382


    In Terminal, type diskutil info /Volumes/volume_name, where volume_name is the name of the NTFS volume. From the output, copy the Volume UUID value to the clipboard.
    Back up /etc/fstab if you have it; it shouldn't be there in a default install.
    Type sudo nano /etc/fstab
    In the editor, type UUID=, then paste the UUID number you copied from the clipboard. Type a Space, then type none ntfs rw. The final line should look like this: UUID=123-456-789 none ntfs rw, where 123-456-789 is the UUID you copied in the first step.
    Repeat the above steps for any other NTFS drives/partitions you have.
    Save the file and quit nano (Control-X, Y, Enter), then restart your system.

    If your device doesn't have a UUID, you can use the label instead, which is just the name of the folder that represents it in volumes.
    So if your NTFS drive appears as /Volumes/MyDisk, open terminal, type:
    sudo pico /etc/fstab
    And add a line:
    LABEL=MyDisk none ntfs rw
    Last edited by mac_shinobi; 25th July 2011 at 05:10 PM.

  12. #11

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,706
    Thank Post
    906
    Thanked 1,321 Times in 803 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    Not sure if it works the same or even if it is supported on Lion though

    10.6: Enable native NTFS read/write support - Mac OS X Hints
    NTFS on Mac is pretty awful if you hack it in with tons of people saying apple basically never fixed write support so there are lots of issues with corruption. There is a useful tool (doesnt work in Lion yet) called ntfs mounter which would remount a drive you select as write enabled but I did encounter issues.

  13. #12

    Sylv3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Co. Durham
    Posts
    3,207
    Thank Post
    372
    Thanked 378 Times in 336 Posts
    Rep Power
    148
    Has anybody had an issues with smb servers? My NAS fails to connect without some serious tweaking each time I boot up.

  14. #13

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    213
    Thank Post
    2
    Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    working fine with my solaris express (v11) file server, the most annoying thing is my mini not waking up its display (hooked up to TV) after sleep (not the actual TV, just no output).

  15. #14

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,706
    Thank Post
    906
    Thanked 1,321 Times in 803 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylv3r View Post
    Has anybody had an issues with smb servers? My NAS fails to connect without some serious tweaking each time I boot up.
    I believe there are a lot of issues with that currently.

  16. #15

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    West Bromwich
    Posts
    2,190
    Thank Post
    299
    Thanked 215 Times in 185 Posts
    Rep Power
    56
    CIFS support in lion was upgraded to support microsofts v2 of the protocol or something like that maybe this is the issue people are seeing?

    I have connected to my synology ds101 through smb and haven't experienced any issues. It is slow but then it always has been really with only 10/100 connection and an ATA100 drive inside

    I have adobe cs5 installed and opened ps. It opened. Whether it works properly I don't know as that about as much checking as I did.

    Lion server however is horrible. IMO it is completely unusable in anything but a home environment.

    While trying to set up the services to get some sort of usability out of it I found the essential ones (web, webmail) not to be easy to configure at all. Couldn't even get webmail running at all.

    Anyway back to lion. I have mail configured for google mail access. Runs ok but I don't have much in the way of email in there.

    Speed overall though I do think has been improved. The response of the OS seems snappier.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Best BETT freebie so far.
    By Dos_Box in forum General Chat
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 15th January 2012, 09:09 PM
  2. Best BETT freebie so far.
    By Dos_Box in forum General Chat
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12th January 2012, 09:41 PM
  3. So Far So Good....
    By FN-GM in forum Windows 7
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 7th April 2009, 12:40 PM
  4. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 28th November 2007, 03:40 PM
  5. problems so far
    By barryfl in forum ICT KS3 SATS Tests
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 10th April 2006, 04:50 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •