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Mac Thread, Show all folders, empty Trash? in Technical; Originally Posted by RingOfFlame No my comment is valid. I am not suggesting someone needs to know everything regarding IT ...
  1. #16

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    No my comment is valid. I am not suggesting someone needs to know everything regarding IT but If someone is taken on to do a job then they should be able to support that system from the start. As new systems are added training should take place on these new systems and then the support given will be fit for purpose.

    There is a lot of talk on these boards regarding support frameworks, qualifications and training and how this is what is needed for schools to receive the correct service, yet your comments above advocate the learn as you go alone, know just enough style of support.
    TBF, theeldergeek has said that he CAN support the structure as it is . However, I do agree that there is an issue with training, and whilst a lot of us are happy to learn as we go, many would benefit from much more training. We do seem, in the main, to be left to struggle through, which can be an issue for some (like me) who have little time to play or experiment with the systems and who work alone and therefore have no chance to learn from someone more experienced.

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    powdarrmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    No my comment is valid. I am not suggesting someone needs to know everything regarding IT but If someone is taken on to do a job then they should be able to support that system from the start. As new systems are added training should take place on these new systems and then the support given will be fit for purpose.
    You haven't allowed for the traditional British HoD approach to new ideas:

    1. Wowed by salespeople and/or shiny adverts and/or Apple Corporation;
    2. Insist on kitting out a suite of said technology, ignoring all advice to the contrary or protests that nobody has the skills to support it;
    3. Find there isn't enough money left in any budget to pay for it, let alone training on it (if there is some money, refuse to spend it anyway);
    4. When technical staff still aren't able to support it, whinge that IT are useless and/or say "how hard can it be, you're good at this stuff".

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdarrmonkey View Post
    You haven't allowed for the traditional British HoD approach to new ideas:

    1. Wowed by salespeople and/or shiny adverts and/or Apple Corporation;
    2. Insist on kitting out a suite of said technology, ignoring all advice to the contrary or protests that nobody has the skills to support it;
    3. Find there isn't enough money left in any budget to pay for it, let alone training on it (if there is some money, refuse to spend it anyway);
    4. When technical staff still aren't able to support it, whinge that IT are useless and/or say "how hard can it be, you're good at this stuff".
    That is EXACTLY why we've struggled with our Macs for the last 12 months (well, except the financial part. Managment seemed happy to throw lots of money at it, there was just no time...). It seems that no-one outside my office could even contemplate the fact that the IT team had zero experience with networked Macs, and only I had domestic experience in the previous 18 months. But still every little problem was 'a technical issue' so I needed to 'get it sorted now, as it's affecting teaching and learning'.

    Anyway, regarding the OP... That Server Cleanup utility looks useful - thanks! *downloads for use while reconfiguring a hastily set up Mac system into something more stable over the summer*
    Last edited by dayzd; 25th May 2010 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #19
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    TBF, theeldergeek has said that he CAN support the structure as it is . However, I do agree that there is an issue with training, and whilst a lot of us are happy to learn as we go, many would benefit from much more training. We do seem, in the main, to be left to struggle through, which can be an issue for some (like me) who have little time to play or experiment with the systems and who work alone and therefore have no chance to learn from someone more experienced.
    I'd probably benefit from training to improve on what I could do within my job role, as I fall into the "learn as we go" (LAWG), which in some respects frustrates the heck out of me, but in others is an aspect I enjoy. I'd like to learn new skills or have some formal recognition of skills I already possess.

    That said, I don't think an employer should shirk the responsibility of training staff when new technologies come on board, but regretfully, my employer will not pay out for even the most basic of training. Aside from some rather questionable Apple training, the best I have ever been offered, was an NVQ at a level I would expect a 10 year old to know!

    I have had one almighty struggle with learning how to run and administer a Mac network as it was totally alien to me when it all started. I did do some training with Apple when it all first started, but the training was so badly delivered that not one person in a class of about 10 passed the end of training exam. Thereafter, instead of re-training us, a deal was struck whereby our local Apple dealer would give us 'x' amount of support on site. This didn't really help me learn or understand what I was faced with, and so it was really down to the "LAWG" method, and that's what has got me where I am today, minus a few weeks off sick with anxiety!

    Given the scope of my role, there is no way I can (or ever could) know everything, but what I can do (and do do), is support the infrastructure to the standard required. After that, most of what I do is looking to improve what we have, which is generally where the "how do I" element comes in.

    I think (hope) that what RofF was asking, was whether or not my employer was aware of the shortcomings of my position because I was having to resort to forums to seek advice as opposed to receiving adequate, quality training. I don't think it was intended as a criticism of me, per se, more of the position I (and many others like me) find ourselves in.

    Maybe the attitude to training staff is different in the USA?
    Last edited by theeldergeek; 25th May 2010 at 05:41 PM.

  5. #20
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    ... but If someone is taken on to do a job then they should be able to support that system from the start. As new systems are added training should take place on these new systems and then the support given will be fit for purpose.
    Can I just point out, I wasn't taken on to support the system; the 'system' as it was when I started, I could support standing on my head, hands tied behind my back, whilst whistling the Star-Spangled Banner! (or A N Other National Anthem) And then some...

    What happened was, a new system was 'installed' in the school (namely Apple iMac's) in which I had no real part in consultation, configuring or initially, training. Thus, I agree fully with your sentiments concerning training on newly installed and/or alien systems.

    I did get eventually get training on Apple, by Apple, but as mentioned in another reply, it was so badly delivered no-one in the class benefited from it.

    Fortunately, we did have a 'honeymoon' period whereby we had some time to familiarise ourselves with the new system before it went live. This period gave us time to ensure adequate support was in place when we did eventually go live.

    As time has progressed, I have 'discovered' new ways to improve on what we have, and better ways to support it.

    Thus, I don't think it is fair for anyone to suggest anyone should know everything about IT; even if you specialise in one particular area of expertise there will always be something that throws a spanner in the works.
    Last edited by theeldergeek; 25th May 2010 at 05:44 PM.

  6. #21

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    IMO when training is given, it is given as general information. Only when you use the products in your environment do you realise that some things just weren't covered that you did need to know about. Training cannot cover every eventuality, but is there only to provide the basic understanding of something or a process. So even after being trained on a product you may find yourself coming up short on certain things, which will usually result in searching the web for answers or asking in forums such as these.

    Isn't this one of the reasons the Internet has become so useful, especially for IT guys?

    If people think that by having training on a product means they know every little nook and cranny of it, then I think they too are being a little naive.

    Sometimes you just have to figure things out for yourself (with a little help from your friends )

  7. #22
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by HodgeHi View Post
    ....a little help from your friends )
    And I get by....

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