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Mac Thread, No user serviceable parts! in Technical; Ok, so I now have complete confirmation that you simply don't like Apple computers and don't have any real reason ...
  1. #46

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Ok, so I now have complete confirmation that you simply don't like Apple computers and don't have any real reason not to use them other than your existing investment in windows systems. I'm going to drop it now, as I don't think there is anything that would convince you otherwise, even if apple computers were free.

  2. #47

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    Yes, personally I don't like apple - that's no secret. But what I don't do, is let my personal opinions affect work decisions. If art/music were to turn around and say "can we have macs" and were convincing enough they'd be used, then they could have them. Providing we were given adequate training, the time to do it and of course the extra resources.

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    Whatever next, want to manage windows xp clients ? want them to authenticate to AD ? then you'll be needing a windows 2003 server. The cheek of it.
    As I understand it it is quite possible to set up a windows xp station to authenticate from a linux + samba system, I think that is even on the wiki.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    But there are administrative headaches with managing incredibly-easy-to-setup windows server 2003/xp environments. Shit, Microsoft can't even get their OWN products to play nice together - heed the xp and vista on the same network warnings.
    The thing is that Windows 2003 server is not marketed as being super easy to use and administer or even intuitive, however this seems to be foundation on which Macs are advertised by the company and their followers.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    And here's some news for you.....want to do any kind of professional video work in Windows and you'll need to get you're wallet. No difference with OSX there. Last time i checked, Office 2007 and Dreamweaver CS3 weren't in the Windows 'box' either. No,What you get in the retail 'box' is a load of useless utilities that just clog up the hard drive and the desktop.
    Yes, you are right Windows machines usually come loaded to the brim with rubbish utilities but again it is the advertisements and the arguments that are at issue here. Macs are held up as the example of a pc that can do everything better by enthusiasts (including the company itself) and this is just not the case. Yes you have to buy Office and Dreamweaver but that is commonly known. A Macolite will sell the consumer on the promise of everything and then after purchase will 'remind' them that to do the pro stuff they actually need to buy more stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    i've recommend on numerous occasions to osx newbs to buy osx server when building a 'mac suite' or something similar....Even if it means buying the cheap as chips 10 user version on the equally cheap mac mini. Plus in the not too distant future the xserve will represent a better value proposition than ANY Dell or HP server once the creators of parallels come out with a server virtualization product that'll allow windows linux and osx on the the same box.
    Heres my issue with that, apple has repeatedly made clear that it does not do stuff for enterprise. Its policies on the iphone and onsite responce service (none) show that. The only benifit to having an apple server that can run OSX is if you actually use OSX.

    I would prefer to have a business grade machine with business grade support, I know that I would not be giving up the 3 year 3 hour onsite support for the capability to run an OS that I have no need for.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    The trouble is synack you've given the game away in a previous post, as to the real reasons why you're ranting about apple products.....

    you use ntbackup, so you're school is pisspoor like webman. boohoo.
    Massive assumption there, I work for several different schools. Primary level but still, at the school that I did this little mac experiment in budget for computers is not the issue, we have 4 pcs per room excluding specialty areas. Management support (for macs) was, we had some older macs, we actually get all of the latest Mac software free through our countries school deal. I was doing this to try and expose the students to Macs as well, I was not asking for full Windows like management of the Macs, just simple authentication and mapping of a drive. We only had 4 old Macs so setting up a server for them seemed a tad excessive.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    What little investment you do have means you can't do an osx environment properly. That's nothing to do with bulging wallets...more to do with priority of resources. As i've said you could have an osx server for a few machines on a mac mini for less than 600 pounds.
    My question would be why does it have to involve so many resources to get it going. What is it about macs that require the special treatment and investment for every little thing. I was simply after a universal logon for the older macs to extend what the students had knowledge of.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    Or you're school could invest in some osx training so that next time something 'melts' (hahahah) you can replace the part yourself, or at the very least you have a relationship with a supplier who will gladly repair it for you.... however much of a dunce you've been.
    Your comments here are a little misguided, If I wanted to spend four times the amount on mac training that I would need to for MS/A+ training I would want to have access to more Macs to actually leverage my new knowledge of how to use a screwdriver in the correct Apple way.

    This was not the issue at all. I assume that you are referring to the melted keyboard statement in my previous posts, which it appeared that I need to elaborate on.

    They keyboard that I was talking about was on a G4 Mac notebook, owned by an American Educational Technology 'Expert' that came to our school to do a presentation. I had read that these particular laptops had an issue with the software that governed the behavior of the laptop when the screen was closed while the laptop was on. Most laptops would shut off the screen and suspend or at least dissipate the heat properly. In this case the laptop simply kept on plugging along and melted the keyboard that was under the screen.

    When I saw this persons laptop I knew that this was what had happened as the actual outline of the letters printed on the keys were visible on the LCD itself and the keys were slightly wilted. Apple refused to warranty most of these saying that it was user error.

    This is the bit that got me about this Educator, after Apple had refused to repair his laptop he was still an avid Mac fan still, recommending the company that could do no wrong. What kind of delusion causes this kind of behavior and makes these people try to spread the pain to others.

    On a side note, the laptop, running the latest version of Mac OS at the time could not connect to our wireless network due to bad signal and authentication. This caused said professional to question our schools infrastructure that was not compatible with his Mac and therefore set against his superior computer as my hp was sitting there with half signal when his had none. After moving an access point and turning off the encryption we were finally able to associate his melted Mac to our newly mangled wireless network.

  4. #49

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    I have generally found that the compatibility issue t be the other way around these days.

    Most Mac hardware can usually connect with each other and allow PCs to do the same (except the ongoing issue with leopard and windows shares).

    I have had issues with Windows machines not being able to talk to access points. I have replaced the windows machine with mac minis and found the connection first time. I have also managed to create a wifi bridge between 2 buildings and manage the minis across it. I manage them from an Intel Xserve.

    I found this thread interesting as most of the argument seems to be based on cost. But the one area which seemed to be missing is support cost. How much is your time worth?

    I am not a massively experienced or even superb admin. I don't like doing certain things (like build and customise application installs to be used through GPO) since i don't really know how to do them.

    I have since installed mac mini's into the classrooms. I have leopard installed and authenticating to a Tiger server. But the killer for me is management.

    From one Server i can observe and control both XP and OS X. We have just gone into E-reg in SIMS and so was a god send at reg time. I sat at my machine and observed all 10 machines a the same time whist they did their reg to see if they were coping ok with it.

    To me this is the best part about our setup. Not the fact that most are macs but the fact that i can now manage them more effectively from my end.

    I have tried to get a magic triangle set up but ran into a few issues. I am looking forward to trying it again soon. I love a challenge and i can't rest until i have cracked that challenge. It may not be straight away but i will eventually.

    With regards to the industry and sector that we work in, i found it quite interesting to see that some gave up due to a difficulty that they could not overcome. Now i am not dissing anyone here as i can fully understand that. It's just that removing a complete Hardware/software manf because of this is pretty big deal.

    What if MS disappeared? What then?

    Would it be Linux all the way? What about hardware that Linux had not managed to Support. I know Graphics Card drivers were difficult a while back (could have just been me though ;-))?

    Now i am no way a Guru when it comes to Linux and if you guys are then you should be no where near MS anyway. :-)

    We are currently being pressured into our LEAs recommended Learning gateway. It is based on MS Share point and requires IE to be used.

    Now my problem with this is i know that some of our pupils use Macs at home which means that this gateway is useless to us.

    Why is this important? Because w assume that all pupils work on PCs at home. I work in a Primary School and so the Pupils may not have as much control on what they can use at home. That is down to their parents.

    we can't be the ones to stand in the way of what people wish to use because of our personal opinions. We should be the ones to promote variety of hardware and OSes and apps within education. I can not wait for the day when it is no longer MS all the way. even if it isn't Xp it's Office. This is why i am supporting OS and promoting it from our website from now on. I have deployed Open Office and Neo Office so parents can use and create docs for use at home without the real need to go out and buy the Educations and teacher version.

    To me its all about accessibility. Where ever i can help anyway.

  5. #50
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    having never used a mac in anything other than full superuser mode in work, can you actually lock them down sufficiently for a school situation?

  6. #51

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    OS X Lockdown

    If you want ultimate lockdown and only one user without an XServe then you could use Simple Finder.

    Set the Dock for the User and their access rights and they can't do much else.

    It's what i use in the Nursery.

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