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Mac Thread, No user serviceable parts! in Technical; comparing apples to pairs then. take that Neovo 17" LCD. go find out the price of a 20 inch screen ...
  1. #16
    gaz350's Avatar
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    comparing apples to pairs then.

    take that Neovo 17" LCD.

    go find out the price of a 20 inch screen with a hard glass layer on it by neovo

  2. #17

    webman's Avatar
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    I don't need to because we don't need them.

    My point is, for the same amount of money, we get a larger amount of function machines that suit our school than we would with macs. We also have the bonus of standard hardware (less support costs) and integration with rest of the network to run all our current software. Macs would be of no benefit to the school.

  3. #18
    gaz350's Avatar
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    i disagree, from an employers POV having a multi OS network gives students the skills to use computers more effectively. When they go off to college/Uni/Work they wont be just using Windows.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    I don't need to because we don't need them.

    My point is, for the same amount of money, we get a larger amount of function machines that suit our school than we would with macs. We also have the bonus of standard hardware (less support costs) and integration with rest of the network to run all our current software. Macs would be of no benefit to the school.
    Macs are of no benefit until one of you're teachers applies for funding from a pot of money from one of the many quangos handing out to cash for various learning 'projects' and they decide they want to invest the money in a mac media suite.

    It's not coming out of yours or the schools budget so do you still insist on them purchasing you're value pc kit, or do you use it as an opportunity to get involved in something a little bit different. And have a go at deploying an osx server or integrating OD with AD or the many options.

    My impression is you're objection is purely financial rather than any technical objections to running osx, windows and linux.

  5. #20

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz350 View Post
    i disagree, from an employers POV having a multi OS network gives students the skills to use computers more effectively. When they go off to college/Uni/Work they wont be just using Windows.
    Yeah, that's why have Linux and utilise open-source where possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo
    It's not coming out of yours or the schools budget so do you still insist on them purchasing you're value pc kit, or do you use it as an opportunity to get involved in something a little bit different. And have a go at deploying an osx server or integrating OD with AD or the many options.
    If a department can finance the Macs and the support (as we don't have knowledge and time), which we very much doubt as we're a poor school, then they can have them. Or; they can use regular computers and have it supported by us.
    Last edited by webman; 14th March 2008 at 11:31 AM.

  6. #21

    mattx's Avatar
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    i disagree, from an employers POV having a multi OS network gives students the skills to use computers more effectively. When they go off to college/Uni/Work they wont be just using Windows.
    Since when you can use an Apple effectively ?

  7. Thanks to mattx from:

    webman (14th March 2008)

  8. #22


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    But mac are soo pretty and they come with loads of free* software

    Free if you call spending effectively £1000 on an OS that is lmao



    If your school has more money than sense then great, good for you, maybe you could argue gold plated toilet paper is a good product
    Last edited by j17sparky; 14th March 2008 at 12:47 PM.

  9. Thanks to j17sparky from:

    webman (14th March 2008)

  10. #23
    gaz350's Avatar
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    dont know where your getting £1000 from.

  11. #24

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Normal iMac's cost us about £600 + extended warranty. That isn't a grand, and includes a powerful machine, with a 20" monitor.

    Or a mac mini is about £300 for a quite powerful machine + a monitor, keyboard and mouse.

    Those aren't huge prices.

  12. #25

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Nope, why do you say that? Macs are just ridiculously over-priced pieces of so-called 'stylish' crap. Our latest machines are Intel C2D, 1GB RAM, Seagate 80GB SATA HD, Neovo 17" LCD, MS Kbd+Mouse, No operating system, Micro ATX formfactor - £259.
    If you want to complain about price, compare like to like. Otherwise you are just being an anti-mac os zealot, which is as bad as being a mac zealot.

    We buy machines that serve a purpose. the Mac's we have are used for video editing, to look good in the most public spaces of the school (ie. our school library where parents visit often), and to provide access to a variety of software.

    Just saying they are overpriced is stupid, to be blunt, as they quite simply aren't - although, the applecare *is* overpriced.

  13. #26

    webman's Avatar
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    Yeah. Our cheaper standard computers serve us more of a purpose than a mac would, and have the benefits of user-servicable and replacable parts. It's win-win.

    Going out of our way to buy more expensive hardware that has less functional use which will give us more administrative headache would be pointless.

  14. #27
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Yeah. Our cheaper standard computers serve us more of a purpose than a mac would, and have the benefits of user-servicable and replacable parts. It's win-win.

    Going out of our way to buy more expensive hardware that has less functional use which will give us more administrative headache would be pointless.
    both of those last two points are debatable.....or imo plain false. How do you know there's an administrative headache if you've never administered them ?

    And i would say they are more functional than a pc....plus they are user serviceable for organisations that have purchased over a certain number that are within x numer of years old and have Apple Certified Techinicians on staff. So for schools making a substantial investment in new Apple equipment they are few concerns on the administrative side other than the skills training required.

  15. #28
    gaz350's Avatar
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    I understand where Webman is coming from.

    We used to have a 95% mac network. over the last 3 years we've invested heavily in windows infrastructure. It takes alot of time and money to make the jump to fully support a new OS.

    We now have a network that is 50% Mac 20% which is flexible and 30% windows XP.

  16. #29
    Midget's Avatar
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    I really hate having to remove HDDs from a pre-intel apple laptop. You have to remove all the screws around the case and in the battery compartment, undo the clips, take off the back, then take off the front, then remove all the shielding then remove some of the components and then remote teh HDD, there aer about 16 different screw types and at least 50screws in total.

    intel macs ftw. take out battery, undo 3 screws, take off shield, slide out HDD.


    oh and for the people who think apple se high qual parts, there was a 2-3year period where their laptops (g4 ibook and powerbooks) had rubbish cheapest possibly made, chinese, seagate momentus drives which have a tendancy to eat themselves (heads rip off the metal from the platters)

  17. #30

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Yeah. Our cheaper standard computers serve us more of a purpose than a mac would, and have the benefits of user-servicable and replacable parts. It's win-win.

    Going out of our way to buy more expensive hardware that has less functional use which will give us more administrative headache would be pointless.
    So, your pc's have a working life expectancy of at least 5 years with no expected slow down at the end, due to having used cheap parts? The PC's we install are currently at least 2.4Ghz C2D's with 2GB Ram and 120GB HDD's at least. Simply to ensure they last properly without a period where they are slow and irritating to the kids. And even at this spec, we're worried about their usefulness should we update to Vista or it's replacement in a few years.

    Also, the Neovo screens I have come across have been the worst brand I've ever used. The colour consistency across the panel is incredibly low, and failure rates were very high (the place I used them had several hundred, and hated them).

    Finally, adding in the fact that you can dual boot OS X and Windows on the mac's, allowing you to have a mixed network to allow for practical usage of skills between different OS's is a big bonus.

    Anyone who buys a computer for a school for £259 is just asking for trouble in a couple of years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Midget
    oh and for the people who think apple se high qual parts, there was a 2-3year period where their laptops (g4 ibook and powerbooks) had rubbish cheapest possibly made, chinese, seagate momentus drives which have a tendancy to eat themselves (heads rip off the metal from the platters)
    Agreed, they did go through a while using cheap components. This was some of the earlier macbooks and later ibooks I believe, and they had major problems with logic boards too. But all company's go through bad spells - look at MS, they are up and down like nobody's business.

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