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    abillybob's Avatar
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    Is there any screen better than a Mac

    Now of course there is 4k televisions and such like although when looking at gaming laptops for the same kind of money I can't find a screen that will match it! I have just got a new MacBook and I must say the screen is beautiful it's so crisp and clear it's around double the resolution on a 1080p screen look great. Though this is being done with just a simple integrated GPU chip and everything runs fine, although big thing they have missed is that no games available for the Mac can play at the Mac's native mega resolution (and if they could the Mac would completely fail trying to render the graphics) for example I installed Rust which when hooked up to my 4k TV through my Alienware does play at 2880x1800 and this is a native resolution on a Mac screen problem is the Mac version only lets you go to 1440x900 what the hell it looks awful.

    The GT 750m isn't the best card it's very mediocre at best in the MacBook Pro and at around £2100 it's pure daylight robbery I suppose you could call it a "starter" card you could say compared to the GTX 780m in my Alienware, what I can't understand is why Apple can produce such gorgeous screens but no other gaming laptops can they all seem to be limited to 1080p screen why is this?

    Do any of you guys know a gaming laptop brand that produces amazing screens but still with the brute hardware that matches up to my Alienware? Or is it Mac's that only seem to have this screen type and why is that, why are they the only company to do such high resolution screens.

    I'd be interested in all your feedback Cheers!

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Guaranteed supply, Apple goes to factory X and says we'll have Y amount of screens over a couple of years and puts that in a contract. Factory X can now use that to get loans to make the screens to supply. As part of that contract they can demand exclusivity of the process through that factory making sure that only they have access to them.

    Apple can do this as they are sitting on a cash mountain and can buy out supply chains in advance, not many other companies, like Dell with Alienware will have that kind of cash and do that kind of volume with a high res screen.

    Disturbingly I hear complaints from teachers about these nasty tiny new fangled screens - 1080p - on 15" laptops as they are 'too small' to see. Untill resolution scaling is used better by more people or they actually admit they need classes so that their screen does not have to have pixels the size of lego bricks this probably won't change.

    Eventyally more factories will make the panels and any supply agreements will run out making it easier for other vendors to get them in smaller quantities.

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    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Guaranteed supply, Apple goes to factory X and says we'll have Y amount of screens over a couple of years and puts that in a contract. Factory X can now use that to get loans to make the screens to supply. As part of that contract they can demand exclusivity of the process through that factory making sure that only they have access to them.

    Apple can do this as they are sitting on a cash mountain and can buy out supply chains in advance, not many other companies, like Dell with Alienware will have that kind of cash and do that kind of volume with a high res screen.

    Disturbingly I hear complaints from teachers about these nasty tiny new fangled screens - 1080p - on 15" laptops as they are 'too small' to see. Untill resolution scaling is used better by more people or they actually admit they need classes so that their screen does not have to have pixels the size of lego bricks this probably won't change.

    Eventyally more factories will make the panels and any supply agreements will run out making it easier for other vendors to get them in smaller quantities.
    Ah that makes a lot more sense now. I think it's a huge shame because actually when running Windows on the MacBook Pro it looks beautiful when you scale it properly (obviously you have to set this yourself) but it does look awesome and Windows I feel already does a good job of it! Here's to hoping this will soon become the standard because my god these screens are gorgeous.

    I'm sure Microsoft could do something like this as they're sitting on a ton of money. Due to them releasing the Surface's I wonder if they have any ideas implementing these kind of screens into some Microsoft products!? Only time will tell I guess!

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Do any of you guys know a gaming laptop brand that produces amazing screens but still with the brute hardware that matches up to my Alienware?
    The latest Razer Blade gaming laptop has a 14" 3200x1800 LCD and GeForce GTX 870M GPU. It looks a bit like a black MacBook with green LEDs.



    www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Guaranteed supply, Apple goes to factory X and says we'll have Y amount of screens over a couple of years and puts that in a contract. Factory X can now use that to get loans to make the screens to supply. As part of that contract they can demand exclusivity of the process through that factory making sure that only they have access to them.
    Businessweek has a great article about Apple's supply chain. Factory X doesn't even need to get a loan if Apple buys all of the equipment they need.

    Apple's Supply-Chain Secret? Hoard Lasers

    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Apple can do this as they are sitting on a cash mountain and can buy out supply chains in advance, not many other companies, like Dell with Alienware will have that kind of cash and do that kind of volume with a high res screen.
    Indeed. When you have $160 billion in cash you can get manufacturers to do almost anything for you.

    Another problem is that other PC manufacturers make far too many different laptop models, so can't take advantage of the same economies of scale that Apple does. MSI's current range of gaming laptops is a perfect example.



    Why do we need that much choice? It's ridiculous!
    Last edited by Arthur; 22nd June 2014 at 10:09 PM.

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    abillybob's Avatar
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    @Arthur, cheers mate didn't know that was coming out! That sounds like one hell of an amazing display, the issue I have with Razer and their laptops is the upgradability. Correct me if I'm wrong but I know that on my Alienware it pretty much does everything a desktop would do in regard of upgrading, I can upgrade GPU, CPU, RAM it has four hard drive bays which is awesome. I can even upgrade the disc drive and the screen if I really wanted to. The problem with Razer is although they're hardware looks ace, the practical side of me won't buy one until they allow you to upgrade the machines, if I'm right I know that the older Razer Blade laptop had the GPU chip soldered in and was impossible to upgrade, this is why I didn't buy it.

    The 870m is a decent card but give it a year and you'll struggle to play on high settings. I'm waiting for the 9xx series to come out and upgrade my Alienware to that, I have checked with support and my current gen Alienware's BIOS can now apparently handle generic manufactured GPU chips so it doesn't have to be exclusive to the laptop or Dell to work which is awesome! If Razer do this then it's sold but currently I wouldn't.

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I'm sure Microsoft could do something like this as they're sitting on a ton of money. Due to them releasing the Surface's I wonder if they have any ideas implementing these kind of screens into some Microsoft products!? Only time will tell I guess!
    Check out the screen on the Surface Pro 3, it is rather nice but not coupled with a gaming gpu just yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    That sounds like one hell of an amazing display
    Wait until you see Asus' ZenBook NX500!

    www.engadget.com/2014/06/02/asus-zenbook-nx500-hands-on



    ^ I wish more manufacturers would ditch the useless numberpad, center the trackpad and use the remaining space for decent speakers like Asus have done.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    the issue I have with Razer and their laptops is the upgradability.
    Upgradability increases the thickness and weight unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I can upgrade GPU, CPU, RAM it has four hard drive bays which is awesome.
    Isn't your Alienware laptop about two inches thick, has a battery life measured in minutes and weighs in excess of 3KG though?

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I know that on my Alienware it pretty much does everything a desktop would do in regard of upgrading
    I suppose the main thing you can't upgrade is the motherboard which means you're stuck with the chipset, ports (mSATA/SATA 6Gbps, HDMI 1.4a etc.) and interfaces the laptop originally came with.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I have checked with support and my current gen Alienware's BIOS can now apparently handle generic manufactured GPU chips so it doesn't have to be exclusive to the laptop or Dell to work which is awesome!
    That is definitely a useful feature to have, as is the ability to use the standard nVidia graphics drivers.

    I much prefer my mITX PC + 27" LCD for gaming though.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    The problem with Razer is although their hardware looks ace, the practical side of me won't buy one until they allow you to upgrade the machines.
    Some people prefer looks over upgradability though. I think there's definitely a market for gaming laptops like the 14" Razer Blade.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    To be honest, I've never understood the desire to spend so much money to play games on a laptop, when a desktop of half the price will provide a better experience by quite a significant margin.

    That said, you are indeed correct about the scaling - most developers don't use the high resolution monitors properly and there's a simple reason for it - they're still a niche product. WPF and Windows 8 apps are designed to handle such scaling but most others aren't.
    Last edited by localzuk; 23rd June 2014 at 09:37 AM.

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    To be honest, I've never understood the desire to spend so much money to play games on a laptop, when a desktop of half the price will provide a better experience by quite a significant margin.
    Space and portability.

    I don't have room for a full gaming desktop, so I get laptops.

    It's also easier to take a laptop to a LAN event than it is to take a desktop.

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    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    To be honest, I've never understood the desire to spend so much money to play games on a laptop, when a desktop of half the price will provide a better experience by quite a significant margin.

    That said, you are indeed correct about the scaling - most developers don't use the high resolution monitors properly and there's a simple reason for it - they're still a niche product. WPF and Windows 8 apps are designed to handle such scaling but most others aren't.
    I got a decent discount from ecomputers at around £700 off at the time so I got an Amazing deal if I'm honest but there is no way I would buy it from Alienware direct it's ridiculously priced and you have to wait up to two months for them to build it before you get it! I've always built my own desktop machines but they lack in quality and appeal, they're generally a bunch of different branded parts shoved into a case with bright blue LED fans and don't run as efficiently as they should. It's hard to really say why but if you where to have a few minutes playing with my Alienware you'd understand you get your moneys worth the speakers alone are Klipsh audio and they beat any other speakers I have heard, sometime I think it's not just about sheer components but the 120hz screen, amazing keyboard, speakers, etc...and plus it means I can game when I'm on holiday and the Girlfriend is taking 2 hours to get ready, you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Upgradability increases the thickness and weight unfortunately.
    This doesn't bother me so much as long as I have the ability to upgrade the GPU etc.... an i7 Processor no matter what type will last for years so I don't see the need to upgrade a motherboard in a computer for a very long time, it's the GPU that normally needs upgrading once every 2 years or so, the i7 will still be a power house in 2 years time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Isn't your Alienware laptop about two inches thick, has a battery life measured in minutes and weighs in excess of 3KG though?
    That is one of the main issues is that it is heavy, I mean so heavy it aches my arm when carrying it far! How thick it is doesn't really bother me it adds to the beasty factor of the laptop and I love the design. The battery life I don't think is too bad when gaming it will last two hours using dedicated Graphics and the brightness medium on the screen though when just using the integrated graphics you can expect 8-10 hours of battery life easily!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Some people prefer looks over upgradability though. I think there's definitely a market for gaming laptops like the 14" Razer Blade.
    Don't get me wrong it is tempting but I just can't see it outlasting my Alienware and when you're spending that much on a laptop I'd choose the one that can be upgraded and last longer than the one where everything is soldered onto the main board, but that's just me

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Being blunt, there are a million and one screens better than anything Apple have. They're just consumer purchased from phillips/lg/samsung/benq/whoever happens to be friendliest at the time. I enjoyed this fact a few years ago when Apple users were blathering on about their shiny, "unique" screens until I took one apart in front of such a fanboy, slotted it straight into the Dell Latitude D830 and turned it on.
    Loved that laptop. 1920x1200 on a 15" was pushing it a bit though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Being blunt, there are a million and one screens better than anything Apple have. They're just consumer purchased from phillips/lg/samsung/benq/whoever happens to be friendliest at the time. I enjoyed this fact a few years ago when Apple users were blathering on about their shiny, "unique" screens until I took one apart in front of such a fanboy, slotted it straight into the Dell Latitude D830 and turned it on.
    Loved that laptop. 1920x1200 on a 15" was pushing it a bit though!
    I get a kick out of you...yur funny

    I'm just trying to figure out what other companies were using high PPI screens in their laptops at the time Apple released them to market. Can't think of any. That would kind of make them "unique" and special ordered rather than just grabbing something from off the shelf from the "friendliest" manufacturer at the time.

    Of course, if there were loads if other PC manufacturers using high PPI screens before or at the same time as Apple did, then please feel free to clear the air
    Last edited by seawolf; 2nd July 2014 at 05:05 PM.

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Of course, if there were loads if other PC manufacturers using high PPI screens before or at the same time as Apple did, then please feel free to clear the air
    There were loads about 6 years before, not quite as high definition but plenty like my 7 year old hp that was running a 1920 by 1200 15" screen. it was only when HD tvs became more popular that 1080p became the 'best' you could get and they all started shipping with lego block 720p screens for smaller units. It was all a stupid cost cutting move thanks to being able to use the same controllers and lithography for all the screens along with the geriatrics winging about small writing back when Windows was rubbish at UI scaling.

    Long story short Apple was not the first to do high PPI they were the first to start implementing it again after the great quality plato caused by Sony and the other TV manufacturers along with the 'people will only ever consume' brigade from Hollywood that saw the height of laptop design as being able to play toy story 97 at 'full HD' of blueray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    There were loads about 6 years before, not quite as high definition but plenty like my 7 year old hp that was running a 1920 by 1200 15" screen. it was only when HD tvs became more popular that 1080p became the 'best' you could get and they all started shipping with lego block 720p screens for smaller units. It was all a stupid cost cutting move thanks to being able to use the same controllers and lithography for all the screens along with the geriatrics winging about small writing back when Windows was rubbish at UI scaling.

    Long story short Apple was not the first to do high PPI they were the first to start implementing it again after the great quality plato caused by Sony and the other TV manufacturers along with the 'people will only ever consume' brigade from Hollywood that saw the height of laptop design as being able to play toy story 97 at 'full HD' of blueray.
    Ummm...1920 x 1200 is quite a ways off from 2880 x 1800. But hey - a million or a billion - what's the difference besides 3 extra zeros? Just don't take up a career in accounting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    like my 7 year old hp that was running a 1920 by 1200 15" screen.
    That's only 150.94 PPI though so not really that high.

    The only high PPI displays I know of that were released prior to Apple's were IBM's T220 and T221 22.2" monitors. These had a native resolution of 3840x2400 (204 PPI) and were insanely expensive.

    Apple's MacBook Pros have 2560x1600 or 2880×1800 LCDs so 232.22 PPI and 226.42 PPI respectively.



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