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Mac Thread, Anyone buy Apple machines just for the build quality? in Technical; Originally Posted by LosOjos I completely disagree - if you compare a MacBook Pro with it's equivalent , I don't ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I completely disagree - if you compare a MacBook Pro with it's equivalent, I don't think the MacBook Pro is "far superior" at all. Part of the problem is it's incredibly difficult to find an equivalent - equally specced non-Apple devices cost significantly less, as I have already pointed out, and their build quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, though I have to say the Dell machines, while not the cheapest, are beautifully made. Equally priced machines easily match the MacBook, if not exceed it, for build quality and have significantly higher spec components.

    So, if you buy Apple, buy because you want Mac OS, but drop the "build quality" card, it's no better than anything else in the same price range.
    Show me an example They might be close, but they do not match the level, unless there is a device that I have not seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I completely disagree - if you compare a MacBook Pro with it's equivalent, I don't think the MacBook Pro is "far superior" at all. Part of the problem is it's incredibly difficult to find an equivalent - equally specced non-Apple devices cost significantly less, as I have already pointed out, and their build quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, though I have to say the Dell machines, while not the cheapest, are beautifully made. Equally priced machines easily match the MacBook, if not exceed it, for build quality and have significantly higher spec components.

    So, if you buy Apple, buy because you want Mac OS, but drop the "build quality" card, it's no better than anything else in the same price range.
    I prefer apple but that's just personal preference

    1) At least the solid base unit enclosure for the laptop range using a solid aluminium block instead of plastic which if lent on with some weight or if taken apart wrongly gives way / snaps / breaks etc

    2) I prefer the back lit keyboard that you get with it as standard

    3) High res screen - not looked at alternative laptops so can't comment on this point to be fair

    4) I do to some extent think gpu's on the laptop range should be better for what you pay

    I know the newer mbp's have items glued in place so am not keen on the newer ones for this as makes repairs a total PITA

    If however you are referring to the new mac pro then I would say its value for money ( @Arthur posted a link on this as the dual graphics cards would normally equate to a lot of and thats without the xeon cpu's, ram etc etc

    I enjoy apple devices more as a home user as

    1) They work and if I have any issues I can book to go into an apple store and they sort issues out ( have not had to do that often )

    2) I don't have to deal with issues that I generally have to deal with on windows machines at work ranging from driver issues / hard drive or ram going faulty / having to use free tools to get rid of malware due to the current AV solution being either mis-configured or generally rubbish / DNS Issues / windows BSOD's etc

    3) In comparison to linux I don't have to know a lot or do stuff on the command line. Install and go pretty much. That's not to say I don't want to learn but when its at home I just want to power it on and it work and not be greeted by errors on linux or windows etc that I then have to google and spend time on as I use it as a media and internet browsing device. I would much rather use a separate laptop for learning linux or other things in a vm so if it does go wrong then it's not an issue

    I suppose everything is down to circumstances ie how much budget the person has, what there personal preferences are, what suits there requirements better etc etc

    Only mac I currently have is a 2011 mac mini

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinghaggis View Post
    I think we can all agree that you can buy better specced kit for less than what Apple charge but are there genuinely laptops out there that are better in terms of overall build and finish? I'm not approaching the question from a pro or anti Apple viewpoint BTW! Just opening it up for discussion as it would be nice to have some examples
    Did you read my whole post? The point I was making is you can't find a direct equivalent - nobody makes machines as relatively low specced as Apple in their respective price brackets. IME, higher end Dell are equally as well made in that price range but massively higher specced.

    I'm not saying Apple machines aren't well made, but at their price they're no better than any other high end non-Apple machine.

    Basically, my 'grief' is that the Apple build quality argument is flawed because people never factor in the cost. Yeah, an equally specced non-Apple device may not be as well made because it'll generally be at the mid-range end of the scale, but an equally priced machine will be as well made and have higher spec because in the non-Apple world, the price would put it on the high end of the scale.

    TL;DR - Apple products are generally not good VFM
    Last edited by LosOjos; 10th April 2014 at 06:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spacebar View Post
    Show me an example They might be close, but they do not match the level, unless there is a device that I have not seen.
    I've said multiple times, check out some of the higher end Dell machines. I dare say there are many others, I keep coming back to Dell because they are what I have seen and would buy if I wanted a laptop. Also, I've avoided childish remarks like "BS", I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

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    XiJ
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    I originally went (plastic) MacBook in 2007 because I felt it would last better than a similar PC laptop. It's still going actually and nothing has fallen off!

    My last 2 MacBook pro's are just fantastic. I love the solid aluminium that they are carved from. I've not come across anything like that is terms of rigidness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I've said multiple times, check out some of the higher end Dell machines. I dare say there are many others, I keep coming back to Dell because they are what I have seen and would buy if I wanted a laptop. Also, I've avoided childish remarks like "BS", I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

    IBM Carbon X1, bloody amazing, they even do a AIO that looks like a imac too, when I went to Microsoft HQ in London I had to say I had to look twice as it looked like they all had imac lol! Have a look at the Dell Latitude 6430u, just got one at work and it's amazing, assuming you've got the SSD fitted, even with 4gb ram it's quick.

    Thing I like about the Mac is there is just one. Does that make sense? They don't do a cheap version, even their cut down cheap mac mini is 500 - they don't cut corners. It's not like you need to worry about that 6GB laptop only having a celeron in it. So I can see the benefit if you can't be bothered to waste hours researching the market, you can pretty much just walk into an Apple store with at least 1k and walk out with a good machine that will last you years and years. Also they are pretty regular when it comes to releasing new models, rather then PCs which a new CPU comes out, then a new gpu a few months later - good if you replace a part every few months.

    I previously got a Mac Mini that was in a bit of bad shape for 30, managed to get it working and it was alright, good build quality just slow, well what do you expect for 30. I'm tempted to go buy a new one, but at 500, it'll be a while. I don't think I'll get anything else as it's not worth it for me. I mean my PC cost me 200 and I've spent maybe another 350 on it. If someone put 1k in my hand I'd get a Mac Mini and spend the rest on more important things. Finance is a no-no when it comes to computers. One thing I will say, my mate sold his iPad then spend a extra few quid and got himself a new iPad, he also does it with his MacBook, that makes sense, it's like buying warranty, only you get a new one every few years - Apple machines do hold their value quite well.

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    @LosOjos

    I did read the post and appreciate it's difficult to get an equivalent given the premium Apple tend to charge. I'll admit I've not seen any recent examples but from experience of Dell's Alienware and XPS ranges in the past I've come away really disappointed at how poorly put together and finished they are for 1000+ computers/laptops. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as quite a few on here have posted saying how good they are now though.

    That carbon X1 looks nice but it's even more expensive than a MacBook Air!
    Last edited by flyinghaggis; 10th April 2014 at 06:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Thing I like about the Mac is there is just one. Does that make sense? They don't do a cheap version, even their cut down cheap mac mini is 500 - they don't cut corners. It's not like you need to worry about that 6GB laptop only having a celeron in it. So I can see the benefit if you can't be bothered to waste hours researching the market, you can pretty much just walk into an Apple store with at least 1k and walk out with a good machine that will last you years and years. Also they are pretty regular when it comes to releasing new models, rather then PCs which a new CPU comes out, then a new gpu a few months later - good if you replace a part every few months.
    I do see what you're saying but I have to be honest, I love building a new machine. I like the process of putting together the dream machine, then gently whittling away at it until it's within my budget when I do build my own machines, I generally spend between 500 - 700 (tower only) and that will last me 5 years. Admittedly, by the end of that 5 years the PC is showing it's age when it comes to gaming, but I'm sure a Mac would too if you could get the games.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Apple machines do hold their value quite well.
    Now there is a fact I simply cannot argue!

    The advantage of "the cult of Apple" is that people will sell their soul for one, so those that can't afford the latest model will happily pay close to 3/4 for the previous model. My own builds I tend to sell off the valuable parts (RAM, GPU) and put the rest in to my spares bin or reuse them in my next build (tower, PSU for example). When it comes to retaining value, I will admit Apple has the upper hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinghaggis View Post
    I did read the post and appreciate it's difficult to get an equivalent given the premium Apple tend to charge. I'll admit I've not seen any recent examples but from experience of Dell's Alienware and XPS ranges in the past I've come away really disappointed at how poorly put together and finished they are for 1000+ computers/laptops. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as quite a few on here have posted saying how good they are now though.
    Like I said, there may be better than Dell out there but the current models I have looked at are fantastic. I think Dell went through a bad patch where they tried to cut too many corners but have in recent years upped their game again. They're not cheap (by non-Apple standards!) but they are quality - at least at the top end. Some of their lower end machines are still iffy.

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    Horrible argument that's been done to death.

    If you need max osx, buy a mac
    If you need windows, buy a pc
    If you buy a mac SOLELY to use windows, you're a moron.

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  13. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    2) I don't have to deal with issues that I generally have to deal with on windows machines at work ranging from driver issues / hard drive or ram going faulty / having to use free tools to get rid of malware due to the current AV solution being either mis-configured or generally rubbish / DNS Issues / windows BSOD's etc
    Wimper... when was the last time you used a windows machine, cant remember the last blue screen I saw, drivers largely sort themselves in the current version and DNS is a completely non OS specific issue. Hard drives and ram are just as likely to mess on an Apple - especially if treated the same way a classroom pc gets treated, ie kicked and powercycled at the wall continuously -, if you don't buy junk in a PC you have equal odds of failure. Have personally had to deal with stuffed Apple Ram and hard drives on their way out along with a host of other hardware issues like stuffed mainboards and power supplies.

    Macs have their benefits but they are not magically immune to problems or much or even any better than an alright PC as opposed to a bargain-basement spec pc with valueram, a $20 PSU and a postage stamp sized MSI motherboard with a via chipset which is what gives PSs a bad name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Wimper... when was the last time you used a windows machine, cant remember the last blue screen I saw, drivers largely sort themselves in the current version and DNS is a completely non OS specific issue. Hard drives and ram are just as likely to mess on an Apple - especially if treated the same way a classroom pc gets treated, ie kicked and powercycled at the wall continuously -, if you don't buy junk in a PC you have equal odds of failure. Have personally had to deal with stuffed Apple Ram and hard drives on their way out along with a host of other hardware issues like stuffed mainboards and power supplies.

    Macs have their benefits but they are not magically immune to problems or much or even any better than an alright PC as opposed to a bargain-basement spec pc with valueram, a $20 PSU and a postage stamp sized MSI motherboard with a via chipset which is what gives PSs a bad name.
    On the same token PC's arent magically immune to hardware faults either

    Other points I have replied to as don't want to post my replies on public forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    Other points I have replied to as don't want to post my replies on public forum
    I'm intrigued as to what possible opinion on the Apple/non-Apple debate you could hold that's not suitable for a public forum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I've said multiple times, check out some of the higher end Dell machines. I dare say there are many others, I keep coming back to Dell because they are what I have seen and would buy if I wanted a laptop. Also, I've avoided childish remarks like "BS", I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
    the BS was a joke..........

    I have seen some of these Dells and they did not match up, but let us agree to disagree.

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    One thing to note about this debate is that non-Apple PCs seem to have a lot more flexibility for upgrades and user repairs than Macs.

    For example, the white Intel iMacs came apart OK but then trying to get it back together nearly always results in parts not fitting together properly again. I've not seen that on any non-Apple PCs.

    It's only getting worse too, as Apple reduce user serviceability from services.

    So, build quality is all about perception in my view.

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    I will (grudgingly) admit my 2007 plastic MacBook is still not only in perfect working order, but perfect comestic order.

    This used to be in continuous class room use, with a highly challenging class at a special school.

    I also have a 2007 Acer Aspire which is also in perfect working order, but the plastic has faded.

    At least you can say Apple use superior quality plastic!

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